NURSING...the to die for career...hmm

elkpark · Mar 11, 2013

Okay, let's turn the wheel and get back on track. A NATIONAL UNION~ Let's call it NSO. Its a national union where nurses pay union dues for unity, protection and advocacy. It is OPTIONAL. If you want what a union represents you can elect to purchase it like health insurance. If a facility hires you for xx salary and xxx benefits perks etc...its a contract. If they want a union nurse with a contract they hire that nurse, if not they can hire a non union nurse who has no union protection.
Anyone?

I didn't realize we were off track -- we have all been discussing your proposal (you just don't like the responses you're getting :)). But, okay -- as long as it is the employer's choice whether or not to hire a member of your "union," as you propose, and there are non-union nurses around willing to work for lower salary and less generous benefits (and, in nursing, there always are), why on earth would an employer hire a member of the union? That's the entire point of unions in other occupations organizing entire facilities/organizations. What kind of "advocacy and protection" can a union offer if the employer can simply hire comparable non-unionized nurses?

joanna73, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2013

Most Canadian facilities are unionized. There are pros and cons. Some areas have stronger unions than others. Bottom line: you're in the union whether you like it or not. There is really no "opt out" clause. If a facility is unionized, all nursing staff belong to that union, run by the Province and dues are automatically deducted. Based on the tactics I've read on AN, I'm thankful we have a union. Still, it's far from perfect.

lkulmann · Mar 11, 2013

But, okay -- as long as it is the employer's choice whether or not to hire a member of your "union," as you propose, and there are nonj-union nurses around willing to work for lower salary and less generous benefits (and, in nursing, there always are), why on earth would animn employer hire a member of the union? That's the entire point of unions in other occupations organizing entire facilities/organizations. What kind of "advocacy and protection" can a union offer if the employer can simply hire comparable non-unionized nurses?

In my NATIONAL OPTIONAL UNION:) the union nurses get their own jobs. Wages are the same as non union nurses. The jobs are not the concern. Its the protection and unity for the profession that is my concern.

EXAMPLE : Two nurses work for LL Hospital. One is union one is not. The union nurse comes with certain conditions ie...5:1 pt/ nurse ratio, mandatory 8hr COVERED break, CNA with her assignment, just basic labor laws and pt safety issues and quality of care issues GUARANTEED. show about paid lunch and OT after 8hrs. The list goes on and on....

Why would a nurse choose NOT to join the union?

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2013

But, okay -- as long as it is the employer's choice whether or not to hire a member of your "union," as you propose, and there are nonj-union nurses around willing to work for lower salary and less generous benefits (and, in nursing, there always are), why on earth would animn employer hire a member of the union? That's the entire point of unions in other occupations organizing entire facilities/organizations. What kind of "advocacy and protection" can a union offer if the employer can simply hire comparable non-unionized nurses?
In my NATIONAL OPTIONAL UNION:) the union nurses get their own jobs. Wages are the same as non union nurses. The jobs are not the concern. Its the protection and unity for the profession that is my concern.
EXAMPLE : Two nurses work for LL Hospital. One is union one is not. The union nurse comes with certain conditions ie...5:1 pt/ nurse ratio, mandatory 8hr COVERED break, CNA with her assignment, just basic labor laws and pt safety issues and quality of care issues GUARANTEED. show about paid lunch and OT after 8hrs. The list goes on and on....
Why would a nurse choose NOT to join the union?

Why would a hospital hire a nurse that came with these conditions when they have the option to hire another nurse who doesn't? Look at what hospitals have been doing lately... they're cutting hours, cutting benefits, eliminating raises, increasing ratios and they're still finding nurses to work for them.

This is not a realistic scenario... Individual members just joining some national union, applying for a job at a private hospital which does not have a collective bargaining agreement with said union and saying "I am a member of the union, so I come with the following stipulations." The hospital will undoubtedly say "NEXT". As to why nurses would choose not to join the union... because, like it or not, it's human nature to choose yourself first. If it makes you more likely to obtain employment and you need a salary, you'll take the poor working conditions.

I've never heard of a scenario like what you describe. Nurses who are represented by a nurses' union are employed by a facility that has a collective bargaining agreement with the union. I, as an individual nurse, would have gotten absolutely nowhere if I had elected to join my state's nurses' union and then gone to management at my non-union hospital and said "you now must enter into a contract with me because I am in the union." I would have been told where I could find the door. The union in my state would not even meet with an individual nurse... unions are all about organizing and an individual cannot organize with himself or herself.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2013

The purpose of unions is collective bargaining, as there is strength in numbers. You can dream, but unions mean you're all in or you're all out. It would never work having union and non union nurses working at the same facility, because neither the employer nor the employees would benefit. The employer would choose to go non-union, and the unionized nurses would have virtually no power. There is no in between. It's either a unionized facility or it isn't.

lkulmann · Mar 11, 2013

I couldn't have planned it better...
This union needs members and nurses need unity....tadaaaa!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/07/richard-trumka-afl-cio-speech_n_2828671.html

This is an idea and it requires thinking outside of the box. In the above article AFL-CIO is looking for a change in the way unions are perceived and changing the current model. Nurses could use this to our advantage. WE make the rules. WE call the shots. If the nurse who chooses not to join this national union, that nurse can be abused and used and tossed to the curb. No break, no lunch, 6-8 patients, No OT and on and on...that facility will soon have the reputation of treating their nurses bad and poor pt care because the nurses are always short staffed over 'there' nurses will join trust me, they'll join.

lkulmann · Mar 11, 2013

Soon well be coming to work with our own benefits, Obamacare. Why not our own union with pension, early retirement and labor law protection....I'm loving this idea more and more:) it could definetly work!

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2013

Soon well be coming to work with our own benefits, Obamacare. Why not our own union with pension, early retirement and labor law protection....I'm loving this idea more and more:) it could definetly work!

I don't think Obamacare is the answer for benefits. I'm glad you are loving your idea more and more but there have been plenty of nurses who are trying right now. While it is great to think big or go home.....change is slow. Many nurses know that they will lose their jobs and won't join you.

I have seen hospitals spend thousands, thousands, of doollars for consultants to "improve employee satisfaction" which translates to union busting. I have sat in administrative meetings when the "troublemakers" are listed, talked about, and targeted for termination.

I wish you the best.

lkulmann · Mar 11, 2013

Ahh...now I see where this is going. Honestly I know little to nothing about unions or union busting in the current sense of the terms. Its all political BS and money games. What I want is protection from the 'typical' abuses that we deal with no lunch, better working conditions competent coworkers and management. This is not a power 'thing' for political silliness. I think I can make up my own mind about voting. Times are changing and nurses need to organize for the profession it should be and the respect we deserve.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Mar 11, 2013

Ahh...now I see where this is going. Honestly I know little to nothing about unions or union busting in the current sense of the terms. Its all political BS and money games. What I want is protection from the 'typical' abuses that we deal with no lunch better working conditions competent coworkers and management. This is not a power 'thing' for political silliness. I think I can make up my own mind about voting. Times are changing and nurses need to organize for the profession it should be and the respect we deserve.[/quote']
Well, healthcare, for the past 15 years has been political BS and money games when they decided to be cornered by the corporate market by being a 24-hour business...they saw the potential to make BILLIONS by making the bottom line, and they have been successful at it.
As far as 'typical' abuses, there are laws for that. In the past three years, I have been reimbursed from previous employers for not reimbursing for OT, missed lunches, etc. WITHOUT a union. For jobs I had over five years ago. Don't like your working conditions? Call the labor board and make a formal complaint; if they are many who want make a formal complaint, there's strength in numbers. The history of the union moving helped create such boards to have people investigate and if proven, will reimburse. At my former job, there was a complaint, and they came out within two weeks. The other nuances, such as bathroom breaks and lunch are relative, because I find a way to get one. I also worked at places where either you found a way, communicated and trade off with another nurse, or a clinical resource nurse took over. The onus is on the nurse, because in theory we should be adept at planning care, even for ourselves.
Yes, times are changing, HOWEVER, this can be done at a political level. Laws can and always been in place. It is always a CHOICE to have a voice.
For me, I do not want to be in the position like Massachusetts That is a recipe for disaster. I think it would strangle my advocacy, and that is a NO DEAL for ME.

SC_RNDude · Mar 12, 2013

This is an idea and it requires thinking outside of the box. In the above article AFL-CIO is looking for a change in the way unions are perceived and changing the current model. Nurses could use this to our advantage. WE make the rules. WE call the shots. If the nurse who chooses not to join this national union, that nurse can be abused and used and tossed to the curb. No break, no lunch, 6-8 patients, No OT and on and on...that facility will soon have the reputation of treating their nurses bad and poor pt care because the nurses are always short staffed over 'there' nurses will join trust me, they'll join.

If they have a reputation of treating nurses bad and poor pt care, they will have to change their ways or be out of business. So, with HCHPS and VPB, unions will become even more obsolete.

I'm curious. More then once in your posts you have mentioned unions getting for you an EARLY retirement. It is scary how deep in trouble our country is getting in because so many people believe they are entitled to be cared for by others. I would love to know why you think your employer should be responsible not only for your retirement, but a early retirement???

martymoose, BSN, RN · Mar 12, 2013

It would be nice if they had 30 and out, like some of the other non nursing union jobs I've had.

But I suppose that the "companies "would rather just can the 50 y/o and up , and just replace everyone with younger cheaper workers anyway,not having to worry about retirement pensions.

I'm sure they hope we die beforehand so they wouldn't have to pay any pensions anyway.