NURSING...the to die for career...hmm - page 4

Teachers, Police, Firefighters, Military, Government City/State and Nursing. What do they all have in common? Early Retirement Benefits! Whoopsies...all except for nursing. Whatsup with THAT....... Read More

  1. Visit  KelRN215 profile page
    5
    Quote from lkulmann
    But, okay -- as long as it is the employer's choice whether or not to hire a member of your "union," as you propose, and there are nonj-union nurses around willing to work for lower salary and less generous benefits (and, in nursing, there always are), why on earth would animn employer hire a member of the union? That's the entire point of unions in other occupations organizing entire facilities/organizations. What kind of "advocacy and protection" can a union offer if the employer can simply hire comparable non-unionized nurses?

    In my NATIONAL OPTIONAL UNION the union nurses get their own jobs. Wages are the same as non union nurses. The jobs are not the concern. Its the protection and unity for the profession that is my concern.
    EXAMPLE : Two nurses work for LL Hospital. One is union one is not. The union nurse comes with certain conditions ie...5:1 pt/ nurse ratio, mandatory 8hr COVERED break, CNA with her assignment, just basic labor laws and pt safety issues and quality of care issues GUARANTEED. show about paid lunch and OT after 8hrs. The list goes on and on....
    Why would a nurse choose NOT to join the union?
    Why would a hospital hire a nurse that came with these conditions when they have the option to hire another nurse who doesn't? Look at what hospitals have been doing lately... they're cutting hours, cutting benefits, eliminating raises, increasing ratios and they're still finding nurses to work for them.

    This is not a realistic scenario... Individual members just joining some national union, applying for a job at a private hospital which does not have a collective bargaining agreement with said union and saying "I am a member of the union, so I come with the following stipulations." The hospital will undoubtedly say "NEXT". As to why nurses would choose not to join the union... because, like it or not, it's human nature to choose yourself first. If it makes you more likely to obtain employment and you need a salary, you'll take the poor working conditions.

    I've never heard of a scenario like what you describe. Nurses who are represented by a nurses' union are employed by a facility that has a collective bargaining agreement with the union. I, as an individual nurse, would have gotten absolutely nowhere if I had elected to join my state's nurses' union and then gone to management at my non-union hospital and said "you now must enter into a contract with me because I am in the union." I would have been told where I could find the door. The union in my state would not even meet with an individual nurse... unions are all about organizing and an individual cannot organize with himself or herself.
  2. Visit  joanna73 profile page
    5
    The purpose of unions is collective bargaining, as there is strength in numbers. You can dream, but unions mean you're all in or you're all out. It would never work having union and non union nurses working at the same facility, because neither the employer nor the employees would benefit. The employer would choose to go non-union, and the unionized nurses would have virtually no power. There is no in between. It's either a unionized facility or it isn't.
    LadyFree28, Fiona59, tewdles, and 2 others like this.
  3. Visit  lkulmann profile page
    0
    Quote from lkulmann
    I couldn't have planned it better...
    This union needs members and nurses need unity....tadaaaa!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2828671.html
    This is an idea and it requires thinking outside of the box. In the above article AFL-CIO is looking for a change in the way unions are perceived and changing the current model. Nurses could use this to our advantage. WE make the rules. WE call the shots. If the nurse who chooses not to join this national union, that nurse can be abused and used and tossed to the curb. No break, no lunch, 6-8 patients, No OT and on and on...that facility will soon have the reputation of treating their nurses bad and poor pt care because the nurses are always short staffed over 'there' nurses will join trust me, they'll join.
  4. Visit  lkulmann profile page
    0
    Soon well be coming to work with our own benefits, Obamacare. Why not our own union with pension, early retirement and labor law protection....I'm loving this idea more and more it could definetly work!
  5. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    4
    Quote from lkulmann
    Soon well be coming to work with our own benefits, Obamacare. Why not our own union with pension, early retirement and labor law protection....I'm loving this idea more and more it could definetly work!
    I don't think Obamacare is the answer for benefits. I'm glad you are loving your idea more and more but there have been plenty of nurses who are trying right now. While it is great to think big or go home.....change is slow. Many nurses know that they will lose their jobs and won't join you.

    I have seen hospitals spend thousands, thousands, of doollars for consultants to "improve employee satisfaction" which translates to union busting. I have sat in administrative meetings when the "troublemakers" are listed, talked about, and targeted for termination.

    I wish you the best.
    salvadordolly, joanna73, elkpark, and 1 other like this.
  6. Visit  lkulmann profile page
    1
    Ahh...now I see where this is going. Honestly I know little to nothing about unions or union busting in the current sense of the terms. Its all political BS and money games. What I want is protection from the 'typical' abuses that we deal with no lunch, better working conditions competent coworkers and management. This is not a power 'thing' for political silliness. I think I can make up my own mind about voting. Times are changing and nurses need to organize for the profession it should be and the respect we deserve.
    tewdles likes this.
  7. Visit  LadyFree28 profile page
    1
    Quote from lkulmann
    Ahh...now I see where this is going. Honestly I know little to nothing about unions or union busting in the current sense of the terms. Its all political BS and money games. What I want is protection from the 'typical' abuses that we deal with no lunch, better working conditions competent coworkers and management. This is not a power 'thing' for political silliness. I think I can make up my own mind about voting. Times are changing and nurses need to organize for the profession it should be and the respect we deserve.
    Well, healthcare, for the past 15 years has been political BS and money games when they decided to be cornered by the corporate market by being a 24-hour business...they saw the potential to make BILLIONS by making the bottom line, and they have been successful at it.

    As far as 'typical' abuses, there are laws for that. In the past three years, I have been reimbursed from previous employers for not reimbursing for OT, missed lunches, etc. WITHOUT a union. For jobs I had over five years ago. Don't like your working conditions? Call the labor board and make a formal complaint; if they are many who want make a formal complaint, there's strength in numbers. The history of the union moving helped create such boards to have people investigate and if proven, will reimburse. At my former job, there was a complaint, and they came out within two weeks. The other nuances, such as bathroom breaks and lunch are relative, because I find a way to get one. I also worked at places where either you found a way, communicated and trade off with another nurse, or a clinical resource nurse took over. The onus is on the nurse, because in theory we should be adept at planning care, even for ourselves.


    Yes, times are changing, HOWEVER, this can be done at a political level. Laws can and always been in place. It is always a CHOICE to have a voice.

    For me, I do not want to be in the position like Massachusetts That is a recipe for disaster. I think it would strangle my advocacy, and that is a NO DEAL for ME.
    Esme12 likes this.
  8. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    2
    Quote from lkulmann
    This is an idea and it requires thinking outside of the box. In the above article AFL-CIO is looking for a change in the way unions are perceived and changing the current model. Nurses could use this to our advantage. WE make the rules. WE call the shots. If the nurse who chooses not to join this national union, that nurse can be abused and used and tossed to the curb. No break, no lunch, 6-8 patients, No OT and on and on...that facility will soon have the reputation of treating their nurses bad and poor pt care because the nurses are always short staffed over 'there' nurses will join trust me, they'll join.
    If they have a reputation of treating nurses bad and poor pt care, they will have to change their ways or be out of business. So, with HCHPS and VPB, unions will become even more obsolete.

    I'm curious. More then once in your posts you have mentioned unions getting for you an EARLY retirement. It is scary how deep in trouble our country is getting in because so many people believe they are entitled to be cared for by others. I would love to know why you think your employer should be responsible not only for your retirement, but a early retirement???
    LadyFree28 and elkpark like this.
  9. Visit  jrwest profile page
    0
    It would be nice if they had 30 and out, like some of the other non nursing union jobs I've had.

    But I suppose that the "companies "would rather just can the 50 y/o and up , and just replace everyone with younger cheaper workers anyway,not having to worry about retirement pensions.

    I'm sure they hope we die beforehand so they wouldn't have to pay any pensions anyway.
  10. Visit  lkulmann profile page
    0
    Quote from SC_RNDude

    If they have a reputation of treating nurses bad and poor pt care, they will have to change their ways or be out of business. So, with HCHPS and VPB, unions will become even more obsolete.

    I'm curious. More then once in your posts you have mentioned unions getting for you an EARLY retirement. It is scary how deep in trouble our country is getting in because so many people believe they are entitled to be cared for by others. I would love to know why you think your employer should be responsible not only for your retirement, but a early retirement???
    Well this is my logic. First, many public first responders and healthcare workers have that early retirement pension. Nursing fits nicely into that category. It doesn't mean you retire at that age, you collect at retirement age. The second reason and more important IMO, is getting the old dead wood management staff out and the senior nurses out after training the new grad nurses. Keeps it moving growing evolving... science changes.There are new grad that need jobs leaving posts everywhere on this site. They can't get hired BC they have no experience...that's laughable. Old staff out new staff in.
  11. Visit  elkpark profile page
    7
    Quote from lkulmann
    Well this is my logic. First, many public first responders and healthcare workers have that early retirement pension. Nursing fits nicely into that category. It doesn't mean you retire at that age, you collect at retirement age. The second reason and more important IMO, is getting the old dead wood management staff out and the senior nurses out after training the new grad nurses. Keeps it moving growing evolving... science changes.There are new grad that need jobs leaving posts everywhere on this site. They can't get hired BC they have no experience...that's laughable. Old staff out new staff in.
    Again, some older, long-time public employees still have the "early retirement" pension programs, but those are being eliminated right and left for newer employees in those occupations. It is highly unlikely that anyone is going to talk employers of nurses into starting a program like that when the organizations/occupations that have had them in the past are doing away with them. The trend is clearly away from those kinds of programs, and has been for some time.

    And plenty of us older nurses not only have no intention of going anywhere (retirement) any time soon, but don't care to be told that we have some sort of obligation to get out of the way so younger nurses can have our jobs. We are not all burned out or "dead wood." I am much more active in continuing education and growing/developing professionally than most of the younger nurses I know.
    salvadordolly, Esme12, LadyFree28, and 4 others like this.
  12. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    0
    Quote from lkulmann
    Well this is my logic. First, many public first responders and healthcare workers have that early retirement pension. Nursing fits nicely into that category. It doesn't mean you retire at that age, you collect at retirement age. The second reason and more important IMO, is getting the old dead wood management staff out and the senior nurses out after training the new grad nurses. Keeps it moving growing evolving... science changes.There are new grad that need jobs leaving posts everywhere on this site. They can't get hired BC they have no experience...that's laughable. Old staff out new staff in.

    Wow. That isn't the answer I was expecting. I'm not sure what to think. As a 40ish, relatively new nurse, it has been a rare time I have run into "dead-wood" in my nursing career.

    Myabe I can help you "grow and evolve" a bit?

    Where do you think those public employees get their pensions from? You do realize that you and me are paying for it?

    How do you think private employers would provide pensions? They would have to cut wages and other benefits.

    I would rather not provide for someone else's retirement (ie. public employees) and would prefer to keep my wages and benefits and be responsible for my own retirement plan.
  13. Visit  tewdles profile page
    3
    Why have we allowed ourselves to succumb to the "us vs. them" mentality of the political parties?
    All of us lower and middle classers are in the same boat...scrapping for an every shrinking piece of the American dollar

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