NURSING...the to die for career...hmm

Nurses Activism

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elkpark

14,633 Posts

Soooo...early retirement pension...nurses should be eligible for the serve 20-25yrs and you are DONE pension. It would remedy several chronic problems in our profession. Competitiveness will never go away but it wouldn't be so passive aggressive. Old washed up nurse managers can go...give new nurses and seasoned nurses opportunities to keep the profession up to date and progressive. Nurses could share their knowledge and experience freely and not worry that she will be replaced by newer nurses who have a more up to date education etcetera.. Nurses need to unite and unionized. There is power in numbers.

Again, I'm not sure how you arrived at the idea that nurses should be able to get this when even the occupations who have traditionally had the "20-25 years and you're done" plans are losing them. It's just not gonna happen, even with unionization.

joanna73, BSN, RN

4,767 Posts

Specializes in geriatrics.
Maybe the Hospital CEO's hope you die so they don't have to pay any retirement.....:banghead:

Yes and with the chronic understaffing, lack of breaks and extended shifts, the CEO's are trying to ensure you die. Doesn't it strike you as odd that while promoting health we actually forfeit our own health?

lkulmann

133 Posts

Never say never elkpark! Something HAS to give!

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Never say never elkpark! Something HAS to give!

^ I have to agree with elkpark.

While I've have been surrounded by family members that worked for the federal and state government and have pretty good benefits, I can't see the consensus rolling in our favor for all. I am pro-union; from the standpoint of protecting employees and making employers accountable did following the laws that helped create proper working hours, FMLA, protection of retirement benefits if they go bankrupt, etc.

At this point, IMO, that unions can be an effective force in making sure a work life balance while being able to live comfortably, HOWEVER, the onus is being an advocate. I have been an independent contractor (1099'er) for the 7 of 8 years U have been a nurse, as well as worked as a w-2'er. I took advantage while young and no pre-existing conditions to obtain my own medical insurance, start a retirement account, savings plan, etc. I had an unfortunate accident which set me back about 5 years ago, so I'm sure a "collective body" could've helped me while I was convalescing, instead of the nursing orgs whom couldn't help me because I was NOT an RN (still have the letter-I was a LPN then), as well as ran out of money to give me a hardship grant.

Fast forward to now, I work where there are unionized employees, but nurses are not considered eligible because of our capacity to be supervisors. We have excellent benefits, 403 © retirement, part time employees are eligible for health insurance, discounts, as well as a pension after 5 years. Paid time leave accrues as soon as one starts; tons of work-life balance support, tuition assistance, scholarships, and advancement. All the things I hear that was a part of many employees and now if lucky, for a few thousand, instead of millions.

These benefits should not be for a few, but until costs of living factors are considered and attainable-truly attainable where there is not a huge disparity in terms where it's related to debt-revenue sources, then it can happen...

Music in My Heart

1 Article; 4,109 Posts

Specializes in being a Credible Source.
Never say never elkpark! Something HAS to give!
Elkpark is right on the money, here. What has to give?

The reality is that nurses are fairly easy and inexpensive to train (as compared to pilots, for example), the barrier to entry, ADN or BSN, is not that high, and at worst, they're very easy to import.

I don't know how old you are, lkulmann, nor how long you've been a nurse, but from a seasoned perspective I'll say that you're kidding yourself.

NEVER going to happen. NEVER.

(Nor do I think it *should*, for that matter)

lkulmann

133 Posts

Well there are a few links in this thread that say otherwise. NNU is trying to organize and the AFL-CIO is looking for a new model for unionization. Most nurses are frustrated as hell and want to change careers once they come into the real world of nursing. OBAMACARE is going to change everything and I am

Completely onboard... Nurses need unity and union representation empowerment and standardization

lkulmann

133 Posts

Elkpark is right on the money, here. What has to give?

The reality is that nurses are fairly easy and inexpensive to train (as compared to pilots, for example), the barrier to entry, ADN or BSN, is not that high, and at worst, they're very easy to import.

I don't know how old you are, lkulmann, nor how long you've been a nurse, but from a seasoned perspective I'll say that you're kidding yourself.

NEVER going to happen. NEVER.

(Nor do I think it *should*, for that matter)

I love a challenge. I feel passionate about this topic and I'm salivating at the thought of making it happen just to prove that you should "never say never" especially to me :)

lkulmann

133 Posts

The reality is that nurses are fairly easy and inexpensive to train (as compared to pilots, for example), the barrier to entry, ADN or BSN, is not that high, and at worst, they're very easy to import.

NEVER going to happen. NEVER.

(Nor do I think it *should*, for that matter)

I can't help but wonder why so negative and against nurses unionizing on a national level...?

elkpark

14,633 Posts

I can't help but wonder why so negative and against nurses unionizing on a national level...?

I can only speak for myself, but I certainly was not suggesting that unionization of nurses could never occur (although I don't think it's likely -- I've been in nursing for nearly 30 years now, and trying to get nurses to agree about anything is like trying to herd cats; we are our own worst enemies, IMO), nor do I think that is a bad thing. My only point was that your specific idea of a comfy retirement package after 20 or 25 years of service is never going to happen.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

I can't help but wonder why so negative and against nurses unionizing on a national level...?

^My response is not negative, but if the reality of how diverse our profession is to the point that nurses unionizing in a national level isn't so black and white. It will take grass-roots positioning, however, there are many who have made wise decisions and have been able to be financially stable, ready for retirement or semi retirement; they may not see the need to have a nurses union to protect wages. Or for those who are entrepreneurs that make contracts and working conditions and advocate for themselves, would they need such "protection?" We are a diverse profession, that had to be taken into consideration.

As part of a family that have unionized members and military members, I see a lot of parallels in nursing that have been implemented already, as well as more that can be done; however this has to be done using our "nursing process":

You need to assess the various aspects of nursing, like you see here on AN.

Next, what can we diagnose what "nursing problem" needs to be addressed, specifically.

Next, define a goal. What goals should the profession make that are not being addressed? What takes priority?

What plans/interventions are needed and in what amount of time?

Decide what processes have already been in place that needs to be reached to ALL nurses.

For example; If its wages, that is relative to cost of living...it it should be on pace with GDP and inflation, and/or a tier-based clinical-ladder model (places like the VA have this in place; certain hospitals, including Magnet facilities have this in place as well), maybe both should be factored in when in comes to wages.

If it's working conditions, utilize evidence-based practice to decide on skill-mix and ratios. I did a research proposal in my Nursing Theory class as a student. There are plenty of EBP research about the benefits of skill mix, skilled hours, proposals to improved skilled hours in conjunction with technology, ways to incorporate a healthy skill mix, etc. Find out what hospitals are having which models that keep people there and (for the most part-at LEAST 75-90%) HAPPY??? Are people wiling to or elevating their practice, as well as their facility has that in place??

There are more factors, like ethical dilemmas, and inclusion practices that increase diversity, which are in place at most facilities.

My point, again, is it is shortsighted to look at our profession-I have seen some posters opinion here on AN where they don't consider nursing as a "profession"-to incorporate a "united front" you have to look at the various factors and address common aspects that nurses can ALL agree to, and that's not realistic, because we are not always going to agree, people, evolve and change. There has to be, for me, a consistency in flexibility, in our profession.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN

1 Article; 20,908 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I can't help but wonder why so negative and against nurses unionizing on a national level...?

Not negative really.....just well versed in the nursing community. This scenario has played out over and over again.....It played out in MA when the MNA, the state nursing organization, decided to become the collective bargaining unit (union) for Massachusetts Nurses. There was a huge row between those who were pro-union and those who weren't ending with the development of two separate groups.

The MNA (now affiliated with the NNU) and MARN (Massachusetts Association of Registered Nurses, non union) and the BON. So technically three organizations represent nurses in my state. They fight and bicker and counter act the good either of them do for the profession. To get them to all sit around and sing Kumbya :whistling:......doubtful.

Do I think nurses need to get a long and ban together? Yes. Do I know that those who try to bring a union to a hospital are often targeted and canned? Yes. Have I seen them black balled from other facilities after they failed, been sacked from other facilities? Yes.

Your ambitions are admirable....your enthusiasm refreshing. But I think that things need to get much worse before you will get nurses to sign on....they are happy with their jobs, they don't want to get fired. They would never "walk out" and "abandon" the patients...which doesn't happen by the way.

Me? I have mixed feelings. With the profession right now and the behavior of administrators and corporate America.....I think we need to do something RIGHT NOW.....and we need to look to the firefighters and police to see what to do next. I have seen unions do great things...but I have also seen them destroy themselves...like the coal mines and steel mills.

I wish you the best on your journey.

lkulmann

133 Posts

Okay, let's turn the wheel and get back on track. A NATIONAL UNION~ Let's call it NSO. Its a national union where nurses pay union dues for unity, protection and advocacy. It is OPTIONAL. If you want what a union represents you can elect to purchase it like health insurance. If a facility hires you for xx salary and xxx benefits perks etc...its a contract. If they want a union nurse with a contract they hire that nurse, if not they can hire a non union nurse who has no union protection.

Anyone?

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