Did You Know?
allnurses is the largest community for nurses on the web. We now have over 388,688 members! Join today to network with other nurses, laugh, share, and much more.
| No. 10 | 
Dec 11, 2003, 10:26 AM
 The Shortage
I agree, there will be a shortage if they continue to import nurses. They are only doing this to undermine the bargaining power of the US nurses. It’s terrible how we get the short end of the stick.
 | | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 11 |
Dec 12, 2003, 05:37 AM
Why is there such a negativity developing about bringing in foreign nurses? I remember working with foreign nurses when I finished school back in the 70's and they were wonderful. And guess what???? Most of them are still working full-time now. If you look at it, foreign nurses do not change your salary, or working conditions. They can actually only help you. Since the new requirements are going into effect within the next six months, foreign nurses will no longer be able to go to the US to work on a temporary visa and with minimal English skills. The new immiagration act requires a Visa Screen be completed by each nurse, which includes English skills almost equal to that of a native-speaker. So, be realistic, how many foreign nurses will immediately fit into that picture? I own a school overseas to teach Conversational English to nurses and doctors so that when a "foreigner" over here gets ill someone will be able to understand them. I would be proud of any of my students that were able to make it though the new stringent requirements to be able to practice their profession in the US.
| | No. 12 |
Dec 12, 2003, 07:25 AM
Updated
Dec 12, 2003 at 08:58 AM by Sheri257
Re: Nursing Shortage Identified Originally posted by pieWACKet
"Hospital RNs employment and earnings increased sharply in 2002, which suggests that the shortage may be easing."
Oh how woeful the abstract, perhaps. It neglects to mention that nursing salaries US nationwide ERODED [that is, be it not misunderstood, that from the period of the last temporary alleviation of the shortage until the most current expression of the shortage, salaries were each year LESS than the one preceeding] . That RN Employment and earnings have increased does NOT suggest an alleviation of the current Crisis Shortage; it merely implies a delayed response to market demand on the part of the market barterers.
Here's a link to the actual text of the article: http://www.risnarn.org/Buerhaus%5B1%5D.pdf
The chart on p. 193 does show a big jump in wages from 2001-2002, but it's not very much when you look at the long term trend from 1994, where wages actually decreased in 1997.
Long term, it looks like salaries have been stagnant overall, barely keeping up with inflation.
| | No. 13 |
Dec 12, 2003, 09:19 AM
Updated
Dec 14, 2003 at 06:50 AM by Sheri257
Originally posted by suzanne4
Why is there such a negativity developing about bringing in foreign nurses? I remember working with foreign nurses when I finished school back in the 70's and they were wonderful. And guess what???? Most of them are still working full-time now. If you look at it, foreign nurses do not change your salary, or working conditions. They can actually only help you. Since the new requirements are going into effect within the next six months, foreign nurses will no longer be able to go to the US to work on a temporary visa and with minimal English skills. The new immiagration act requires a Visa Screen be completed by each nurse, which includes English skills almost equal to that of a native-speaker. So, be realistic, how many foreign nurses will immediately fit into that picture?
Interesting point. I'd personally prefer foreign nurses who have to come here and live with the same cost of living, than foreigners who are paid very little in other countries.
Look at the computer industry. Five years ago, those were some of the highest paying jobs around. Now companies routinely export those jobs to India and Asia, where programmers make something like $10,000 year.
At least you can't export a nursing job. I realize that a lot of foreign nurses are paid very little when they first come here. But hopefully they eventually clue into the job market and demand the same wages. I just read about an EEOC case where Filipino nurses had basically done that: suing for RN salaries when they were paid LPN wages or less.
Of course, I could be wrong, and would be interested in hearing other viewpoints.
| | No. 14 |
Dec 14, 2003, 04:30 AM
suzanne4 posted " Why is there such a negativity developing about bringing in foreign nurses?..If you look at it, foreign nurses do not change your salary, or working conditions. They can actually only help you."
Liz Responded : "Interesting point. I'd personally prefer foreign nurses who have to come here and live with the same cost of living, than foreigners who are paid very little in other countries....Of course, I could be wrong, and would be interested in hearing other viewpoints."
I started to write a response to this, but realized I was just referring to my webpages where this topic receives a pretty thorough going over. I think it best just to send you to the direct page http://www.cynthiaswope.com/ABedside...lShortage.html
Details on what the inducement to immigration does to the home countries, the nurses left in those home countries, and the underlying cause for importation [needed response to challenges allowing the native nurse to flourish and encourage other Americans into the profession] are discussed . The webpages are always evolving and under construction, but this particular topic is pretty much wrapped up there.
| | No. 15 |
Dec 14, 2003, 06:48 AM
I looked at your website. My approach is not to take nurses from here to send to the US, but for the ones that really do want to go, provide the appropriate training for them. There have been many programs here in the past that just exploit the nurses and make horrendous promises to them, such as go to the US and work as a nursing assistant for three years, then try to work as a nurse. But we all know what happens when you are out of the field for three years. I would presonally like to see them stay here and be available for when I get old and need someone English speaking in the hospitals, but for those who have always wanted to work in the US, my students are actually fulfilling the requirements to apply for a green card and become a resident, NOT go over on a temporary work permit. I had the ability to move to Thailand for my wants, shouldn't others have the same choice? I don't believe in stealing nurses, nor am I trying to. I am not in that business, just education, but I feel that nurses should be able to work wherever and whenever they would like.
I am stressing English and communication skills and opening up a world for them to get a better job, be it here in Bangkok working for a private hospital, or in another country. Even if they just wanted to go to graduate school in the US, I would recommend getting a green card first so that they would at least be able to work part-time. In Australia you can work 20 hours per week as a student, in the US, zero hours. We don't realize how easy we have it by being born in the US, or at least having US citizenship.
| | No. 16 |
Dec 14, 2003, 06:48 AM
Updated
Dec 14, 2003 at 06:51 AM by Sheri257
Originally posted by pieWACKet I started to write a response to this, but realized I was just referring to my webpages where this topic receives a pretty thorough going over. I think it best just to send you to the direct page http://www.cynthiaswope.com/ABedside...lShortage.html
Interesting info. However, even if this phenomenon creates shortages in other countries, I don't see how anyone can fight the economics of it.
As long as U.S. jobs pay better, and companies want to hire them, foreign nurses are probably going to continue to come here, regardless of the consequences in their own countries.
That's just the way the world works.
| | No. 17 |
Dec 14, 2003, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by suzanne4
I feel that nurses should be able to work wherever and whenever they would like.
That's why they call it a free country.
I've never had a problem with immigration. As long as they master the English language, as you described, I think it's fine.
| | No. 18 |
Dec 14, 2003, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by Agnus
hospitals refusing to hire does not = a shortage of available people for hire.
RNs who refuse to accept working conditions that are offered and therefore refuse to work does not = a shortage of RNs.
The shortage is an artificial one created by the hospitals. If they can convince people there is a shortage then they can pump up things to get more people to become nurses, and bring in foreign nurse and flood the market thus reducing the bargaining power of nurses.
I TOTALLY agree with you Agnus! Thumbs up! I wonder how many nurses are reading and or posting on Allnurses alone who are unemployed for those very reasons. I know that I am one of them. Just the thought of returning to working conditions like that sickens me. And the sad part of it all is that I love being a nurse. I know that I am an excellent nurse........yet "TPTB" cause their own nursing shortage by failing to give a damn about the real reason they are crying they don't have enough nurses. Bull-poopy!  If they really want to stop their whining, then they need to look in the mirror at themselves and ask themselves what type of pleasure they are getting out of causing this so called "nursing shortage" that we all know does NOT exist! | | No. 19 |
Dec 14, 2003, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by suzanne4
..............................In Australia you can work 20 hours per week as a student, in the US, zero hours..............
When I was a nursing student in my last clinical, I was hired by a local hospital here to work in a program they established especially for nursing students in their final clinical rotations. I worked 20 hours a week, got paid for it, and upon graduation was offered a higher starting salary because of my senior student nurse work experience at that particular hospital.
|
| 96 members
1,125 guests 1,221
| 42 | | | 0 | | | 5 | | | 9 | | | 22 | | | 2 | | | 13 | | | 63 | | | 14 | | | 12 | |
| 43 | | | 1 | | | 13 | | | 2 | | | 10 | | | 17 | | | 11 | | | 16 | | | 16 | | | 42 | | | 14 | | | 21 | | | 23 | | | 20 | | | 24 | |
|
Nursing News