Michigan Preparing To Let Doctors Refuse To Treat Gays - page 7

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  1. by   talaxandra
    Quote from Boston1
    Are you not aware of the individuals that call themselves Catholics and Christians and the HUGE MARKET for materials that are designed to draw individuals to "abortions" and an "appreciation" for "alternative sexual orientation" - all for profit? Are you not aware of whose driving those markets? Seriously, my question addresses only your knowledge of whether or not there is a HUGE movement by a small movement to "convert" "Christians" to their "non-Christian" beliefs? It's a 'yes' or 'no'.
    Although I am aware that some Christian denominations actively try to convert non-Christians, I haven't heard of the 'huge' movement you describe, or in fact of any movement like this at all.
    I'm not sure why 'abortions' is put in quotation marks, or why you write 'Catholics and other Christians', but I'm more interested in whether your objection is to the alleged movement or to the fact that is allegedly run for a profit.
  2. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from Boston1
    Are you not aware of the individuals that call themselves Catholics and Christians and the HUGE MARKET for materials that are designed to draw individuals to "abortions" and an "appreciation" for "alternative sexual orientation" - all for profit? Are you not aware of whose driving those markets? Seriously, my question addresses only your knowledge of whether or not there is a HUGE movement by a small movement to "convert" "Christians" to their "non-Christian" beliefs?

    Kind of like the huge number of Christians that proselytize, going so far as to interrupt the privacy of others by going door to door to convert people. The ones barring education of our children to evolution or to legitmate education on their anatomy. Or the ones that try to ban birth control in any form for anyone. Or the ones that send out form letters to my door, come through my TV and are on the radio every day and yet plead poverty. You mean the people that try to force the local courthouse put up a symbol of their relegion on the grounds at certain times of the year, but bar any other religions symbols. That legitimise one beliefs marraige but refuse to recognize any other form of family.

    The organizations that use our services but do not pay taxes.

    You know, I have never had a flaming Lesbian wake me up in midafternoon nap by knocking on my door unsolicited to try and convince me to sleep with a man and get pregnant just to have an abortion.

    But I have had plenty of Christians try to convince me that I am tainted irrevocably with original sin, and that if I don't get down on my knees accept Jesus as my lord and savior, right now, that I am going to Hell. Oh, and that the Rapture is coming.
  3. by   Chad_KY_SRNA
    To be a quality healthcare provider, you have to put your personal beliefs aside and provide care to whomever needs that care. If they begin discussing their sexual orientation make them aware that you respect their beliefs but you prefer not to discuss it with them. I see it as none of my business because it doesn't directly affect patient care. Have a nice day. :spin:
  4. by   Nurse212
    There is a magical saying that should be present in the minds of all who even consider refusing to treat a person that is Gay/Lesbian or any other preference and that phrase is simple:

    GOD LOVES the SINNER but HATES the SIN.

    Before anything else, medical practioners should consider the fact that they have taken an oath to preserve life, not to preserve a way of life or to go against the preference in someone's life. Before we treat a Gay/Lesbian/Straight person, let us remember that we are treating a human being that like anyone else that walks into a hospital deserves the right to live.

    What a shame it is that society at times can steep so low,
    NURSE212
  5. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Before anything else, medical practioners should consider the fact that they have taken an oath to preserve life, not to preserve a way of life or to go against the preference in someone's life. Before we treat a Gay/Lesbian/Straight person, let us remember that we are treating a human being that like anyone else that walks into a hospital deserves the right to live.
    Well said!
  6. by   talaxandra
    Quote from Nurse212
    Before anything else, medical practioners should consider the fact that they have taken an oath to preserve life, not to preserve a way of life or to go against the preference in someone's life. Before we treat a Gay/Lesbian/Straight person, let us remember that we are treating a human being that like anyone else that walks into a hospital deserves the right to live.
    :yeahthat:
    Last edit by talaxandra on Mar 30, '05
  7. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from Nurse212
    There is a magical saying that should be present in the minds of all who even consider refusing to treat a person that is Gay/Lesbian or any other preference and that phrase is simple:

    GOD LOVES the SINNER but HATES the SIN.

    Before anything else, medical practioners should consider the fact that they have taken an oath to preserve life, not to preserve a way of life or to go against the preference in someone's life. Before we treat a Gay/Lesbian/Straight person, let us remember that we are treating a human being that like anyone else that walks into a hospital deserves the right to live
    Not to mention, how many of us are without sin.
  8. by   Boston1
    GOD LOVES the SINNER but HATES the SIN.

    Quote from Nurse212
    There is a magical saying that should be present in the minds of all who even consider refusing to treat a person that is Gay/Lesbian or any other preference and that phrase is simple:

    GOD LOVES the SINNER but HATES the SIN.

    Before anything else, medical practioners should consider the fact that they have taken an oath to preserve life, not to preserve a way of life or to go against the preference in someone's life. Before we treat a Gay/Lesbian/Straight person, let us remember that we are treating a human being that like anyone else that walks into a hospital deserves the right to live.

    What a shame it is that society at times can steep so low,
    NURSE212
  9. by   Fun2, RN, BSN
    This is crazy. I can see one not wanting to treat pts with certain dz's: AIDS, Hep, etc, but saying they won't treat gays is going against the human.

    Many of you may disagree with me on this one, and you have the right.

    Afterall, there are many people out there that are bisexual, and you'd never know it. So how will these MD's get around this one? Say they are not going to treat anyone, and still want to get paid?
  10. by   Boston1
    I apparently have managed to move the question of the original post ...

    Quickly, one of the HUGE organizations that wishes to impose it's will on a world is PLANNED PARENTHOOD. Are you unaware of Planned Parenthood's influence on the United Nations and their (UN) wish to overtly impose population control (that means getting into your bedroom) on your household?

    Honestly, this is straying far from the percieved original intent of this writer and the post generating this discussion. If you hate Christians, God love you...you're free to do that. America allows you to do that - in very concerted and organized ways. Shouldn't Christians, know matter how much they are hated or their beliefs are hated, be allowed to congregate and legislate? Isn't that the thrust of the original post? Which brings me back to the thought that the "tolerant" seem most offended by, without explaining why, my expression and question - WHY IS IT WRONG TO DISAGREE WITH YOU? Christians accept they are going to be persecuted. Many have died for that belief (some who disagree with me would say 'not enough' )

    Seriously, why do you believe anyone should be morally forced to defend (which is what this law hopes to avert) a position they morally disagree with...opposers of this measure have hoped to couch this in terms of the good Samaritan parable - opposers have tried to couch this in terms of what's right and what's wrong...but I thought - in terms of moral relativism there is no right and no wrong - so how from what I can tell (from what's been posted) if the law is about MORAL freedom - can anyone supporting it, really be in the wrong? Who opposes moral freedom?
  11. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    This is crazy. I can see one not wanting to treat pts with certain dz's: AIDS, Hep, etc, but saying they won't treat gays is going against the human.
    Hey, i can look at someone, and not know that they have AIDS or hep.

    As someone said already, perhaps they shouldn't go into healthcare if they don't "want" to treat these pts. Selective care isn't an option when you chose to go into this field.
    Last edit by Marie_LPN, RN on Mar 30, '05
  12. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Who opposes moral freedom?
    I do, when people use it as an excuse not to provide the equal care they took an oath to do.
    Last edit by Marie_LPN, RN on Mar 30, '05
  13. by   talaxandra
    Quote from Boston1
    Quickly, one of the HUGE organizations that wishes to impose it's will on a world is PLANNED PARENTHOOD. Are you unaware of Planned Parenthood's influence on the United Nations and their (UN) wish to overtly impose population control (that means getting into your bedroom) on your household?
    a) there's a difference between abortion and contraception
    b) Planned Parenthood is not a lobby group for or on the UN

    If you hate Christians, God love you...you're free to do that. America allows you to do that - in very concerted and organized ways. Shouldn't Christians, know matter how much they are hated or their beliefs are hated, be allowed to congregate and legislate?
    a) dissent does not equal hatred
    b) I wasn't aware of any measures being introduced to deny any particular group the right to congregate. Individual groups do not get to legislate - that's what elected officials are for
    c) policy/legislation which expressly permits one group (in this case some physicians) to deny care to another group (in this case people identified as homosexual) is only discriminatory to Christians if it allows people to deny care to Christians, which isn't something I've seen proposed

    WHY IS IT WRONG TO DISAGREE WITH YOU?
    It's not. Disagree away - we live in a pluralist society. It is, however, wrong to discriminate against a group of people.

    Seriously, why do you believe anyone should be morally forced to defend (which is what this law hopes to avert) a position they morally disagree with
    If you read my post one page back (post #72), you'll see the analogy I made to rapists. I don't defend rapists, but neither do I believe thaty moral objection to rape allows me to deny the provision of care to rapists

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