Let's talk about the basic facts about the health care reform bill...

[morningland]

I do not like politics. I am neither a liberal nor a conservative so I don't like arguing about political sides.

I do want to know about this health care bill. So far, I know that it is saying that health insurance companies will be more regulated and people will be forced to purchase health insurance but....

- How are people going to purchase health insurance if they can't afford it now?

- How is this going to affect patient care?

- How will nurses be affected by this?

I want to know any basic information about this bill but I am a nursing student so... as is most likely shocking to all of you... I don't have much time to research it, lol.

Thanks and lets try and keep it friendly folks!

-Joseph

[charlestonsailing]

I guess I kind of disagree with you regarding the "selfishness." First, selfishness and greed have been the motivators that have driven a large number of the innovations in health care that have kept us healthier and living richer more full lives. So by taking profit motive away from health care we would end up relying more on individual desire to come up with new ideas and pitting that against institutional inertia. That is why I support for profit health systems and insurance.

As to paying taxes, having lived all over the income scale, I can tell you that I think it is crap that you feel because you would contribute more to fix healthcare if you made over $250000 that it is then ok to use the police power of the government to force everyone else to do so. Additionally, I really don't think tax increases will be limited to those making more than $250000. If I were a person that went to tanning salons, I guess I would already be paying more now???

[Sunnysidegirl]

First of all,you have to look at what the bill states RE taxes we may not all agree.I don't agree on paying for war but I have no choice but to accept it and try to understand why they feel it is neccessary.Second are you saying then that healthcare should only be for those that have the money to afford it? There are alot of hard working Americans that simply can't afford the rising cost of health care(and what about the mentally ill?).What do we say to them tough luck its survival of the fittest?Do people have to wait until they are practically at deaths door showing up at the ER with illnesses that could of been prevented? And as far as the U.S having the most inovative healthcare system you may be right but our country is NOT the healthiest as a whole. In nursing school I learned that we don't compare to those countries that provide preventative care and universal healthcare(there are stats to prove this).Too many people are left out in our current health care system which drives the cost up for the rest of us because they show up in the ER needing thousands of dollars worth in care.

[charlestonsailing]

Point taken on taxes. But saying you think they should pay more when they are already maying a higher rate than you leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

No not at all saying that about the poor. Our system is screwed up. I have never denied that. It just costs too much. But it seems that costs have risen the more government has gotten into paying for it. I don't have data here with me so if I am wrong, please point it out. As government started spending so much on health care in the 60's with medicaid and medicare, costs have risen dramatically, far outpacing inflation. Additionally, as the government spending on these programs has increased and general taxes have increased, the concept of charity care has gone by the wayside. I don't have the time to go find all the link to the reference for you but it is from the Department of Health and Human services that since 1960 when consumers paid for 50% of health care costs and government paid 25% to now when government pays around 50% and consumers pay around 12% medical costs have gone up by 300 something %. Seems to me that it is clearly simple to see how people aren't as wise a steward of other peoples money as they are of their own and that as government spending increases, so too will costs. Short version is, I don't think the government that helped create the problem can fix the problem by spending more money on it.

A similar example is student loans: Federal student loans were intended to help increase access to higher education. That may have worked but at the same time the costs of higher education have skyrocketed. This requires bigger and bigger student loans which in turn results in higher and higher tuition.

Your argument that I must think only rich should get health care is a chicken argument people make to appeal to emotions rather than logic. It is similar to the argument conservatives make by saying liberals are just socialists and hate capitalism.To your point, if I opposed government healthcare, I must feel only super rich people should get healthcare. Except they aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think only rich people should have cars and televisions. There is no government control there and yet most people have cars and televisions. Why does the price of so much of everything we buy go up in technology and down in cost and health care goes up? What I am saying is government is the problem, not the solution. So in simple answer to your question, yes non charity health care should be for those that can afford it and the powers that be should come up with a solution to lower costs and help all americans afford it, not to increase demand.

And for anyone who wonders, I would prefer a single payer universal system to the new law.

[tewdles, RN]

http://www.kff.org/insurance/upload/7670_02.pdf