Is Health Care a Right? - page 4

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More

  1. by   Flo1216
    I did watch a documentary about it though. Last week, as a matter of fact.
  2. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by LLDPaRN
    I totally agree with those who have said our health care system is a mess. Recently, the NY Times had an article about a proposal by Sen John Breaux (LA) for universal insurance.
    I don't know. I really don't trust anyone who authors anything with the Senator I spoke of in my original post in this thread. I'm talking about the recently seated Republican Majority leader, Senator Bill Frist. He's the Senator/Doctor who has millions of dollars in stock in the former HCA/Columbia (now called HCA Healthcare) that got popped by the feds for ripping off medicare. He claims to have had no involvement, but 25 million in stock is involvement in my opinion.

    Frist and Beaux co-authored two plans to privitize Medicare. This is from "Public Citizen." A national non profit public interest organization:
    Their basic approach also has been endorsed by President Bush. Though proponents claim that the Breaux-Frist plans offer seniors more choice and prescription drug coverage, the fact is that both are bait-and-switch proposals...
    Full article: http://www.citizen.org/congress/refo...les.cfm?ID=669
    and more: http://www.citizen.org/congress/refo...les.cfm?ID=667
    and more: http://www.citizen.org/congress/refo...les.cfm?ID=657

    Frist and Breaux along with Senator Jeffords also co-authored legislation on a "Patient's Bill of Rights." This regarding the accountabilty of Managed Care when it comes to negligent treatment of their enrollees. In other words, the ability to sue HMO's. Endorsed by President Bush, Breaux-Jeffords-Frist would require patients wishing to file suit in federal court to go before an independent medical reviewer first and punitive damages for medical errors would be capped at $500,000.

    Again from Public Citizen:
    http://www.citizen.org/congress/civj...es.cfm?ID=5334

    If you combine all of these findings, it points to one thing. These Senators are not looking after the best interest of the US population's health or well-being. They are looking after the best interest of HUGE corporate healthcare's profits. It's just pathetic and these Senators also profit from large monetary contributions from these corporations.

    Wish I had links other than Public Citizen but those are the ones I have bookmarked and anyone can surf the web to find support or opposition to any of these plans.

    ~Sally
    Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Jan 16, '03
  3. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    and i am totally against prisoners having health care, at best they should have minimal care for injuries sustain while in jail, period!
    Ya know a statement like this is really too bad because another huge problem in this country is that most inmates are also mental health patients. And mental health in this country doesn't even come close to being treated even somewhat adequately and in prisons, sometimes not treated at all. Hell, our society doesn't even recognize mental health disease as a medical disease.

    In my beautiful state of CA, get this, our Governor Gray Davis (ugh!) is proposing billions of cuts to already defunct schools (schools that were #1 in the country just 20 years ago), but wants to build a new death row.

    Go figure.

    ~Sally
    Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Jan 16, '03
  4. by   angelbear
    This is a very interresting topic Thanks for posting it. I am not sure exactly where I stand but here is my input. I have a chronically ill and mentally retarded child. He is very precious and loved by everyone. When he was young I was unable to work due to the fact that it was IMPOSSIBLE to find child care for him, and no near by family. However because my husband worked hard but didnt make much we qualified for Crippled Children and various programs for him. Because of this he recieved excellent care for which we are eternally grateful. Once he was a bit older I went to nursing school LPN and now work as a nurse noc's so my hubby or I are always with him. I do not have coverage where I work fortunately we pay minimal fees thru hubby's job. Our insurance is good but we still pay quite abit in deductibles, copays and perscriptions. I worry that way too many people are not as fortunate as we were. I dont know what the answer is but I do know that I would like to see some changes for the working poor, elderly and those who dont fit either catagory. I guess I think it is a right for anyone who appreciates the privelage and would help themselves if they were able. Sorry such a long post.
  5. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by fergus51

    A good book on the subject is called Universal Health Care: What the United States Can Learn from the Canadian Experience
    by Pat Armstrong, Hugh Armstrong, Claudia Fegan
    I love a good book!

    I have a question and I'm sure this has been discussed before on this board somewhere, but aren't the nurses in Canada considered government employees? So are the benefits (including retirement)/pay/etc. pretty standardized?

    ~Sally
  6. by   magRN
    Don't some of you think some of our problems maybe do to the number of non-citizens in our country who basicly leach on our system?

    Also, maybe it's not the best, but Americans are covered through mediacal assistance....of course you and I basicly are paying for it in the end.
  7. by   mark_LD_RN
    some one explain to me how Frist was directly envolved in defrauding medicare as you propose. Do you not think that it occurs at all hospitals. It was not an actual plan, but just occured by design, when billing goes over a chart and codes it they try to get the most they can especially since medicare pays approx 1/3 the rate. it is not an intention to defraud any one.


    as far as the Patients Bill of rights, something had to be done, you should look in my area we just passed tort reform due to all the frivilous law suits, dr were unable to find malpractice insurance. that was not because they were not good doctors. people have abused and used the system now we all have to pay for it.


    on the topic of mental health, yes a lot of people need it and to some it is not a medical problem, i worked in psych for over a yr and find that a lot of what people believe is not true, but i agree psych needs more attention. but i still do not believe inmates are entitled to more than the basic health care needs especially ones on death row.just a pure waste of money and effort IMHO
  8. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by magRN
    Also, maybe it's not the best, but Americans are covered through mediacal assistance....of course you and I basicly are paying for it in the end.
    We are also paying for _________ (insert politician's name here) dinners, "travel" expenses, clothing, cars (I'm not talkin a Ford here), gasoline, mailing, software, catering, hotel charges, telephone bills, "event" expenses, fundraising expenses, a the list goes on and on. AND they get a six figure income to boot!

    http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/index.asp#senate Just click a picture or enter a name of your favorite politician and then click on expenditures on the left side of the screen.

    Personally, if I have to pay taxes (and I do) I rather have my money go to things more worthy of my charity.

    ~Sally
  9. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    some one explain to me how Frist was directly envolved in defrauding medicare as you propose.

    I NEVER proposed that he was "directly" invloved in the fraud portion (if I were to assert that, then I would post proof), but the good Doctor made lots and lots of money over many many years directly related to that coporation.

    as far as the Patients Bill of rights, something had to be done...
    The legislation did not pass. And I agree that something has to be done...just not the plan that Breaux, Frist, and Jeffords proposes.
    Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Jan 16, '03
  10. by   mark_LD_RN
    well sally thats not the picture people try to paint of him. what exactly do you see wrong with then plan ?


    and where is is written that it is wrong to make money off a corporation,that is where people loose site of things. hospitals especially fpr profit ones are set up for that to make money,even nonprofit hospitals can not operate continuously deep in the red. as much as people may not like it health care is a buisness. and it will always be so to some degree even if socialized medicine takes over here.


    is the problem you have with the plan just because of the messenger?
  11. by   Flo1216
    MagRN....I think that is only a small part of the problem.
  12. by   magRN
    Gosh though...socialized medicine? Good in some ways, but certainly not in others.

    But man I agree with the deal about medical care of prisoners...I am aware of several inmates who were dying of CA and had extremely exspensive operations to treat this CA they died in less than 5 months....all to the cost of the tax payer.

    Now I way thinking too. Some neighbors of ours are down and out and they were able to get very reasonable medical insurance through the state! Do all states have a program like this? This is in MN.
  13. by   researchrabbit
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    it is not a right.

    and i am totally against prisoners having health care, at best they should have minimal care for injuries sustain while in jail, period!
    I don't agree. A pregnant prisoner in the county jail began having problems at 8 months and asked for help. None given. They let her deliver a dead baby 16 hours later on her cell floor.

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