Is Health Care a Right? - page 22

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More

  1. by   fergus51
    Kevin and Susy, my most respected conservatives, especially:

    What about some kind of mandatory contribution to health care system? When I went to college the student society had a dental plan. Either I had to show that I had my own dental plan or I was forced to pay into theirs and be covered. Why not somehing like that, where the uninsured in America have to have some basic coverage somehow, even if it means paying into medicare?

    As far as your question about universal health care costs of the non-paying infringing on your rights: It already does now. Is it wrong? Sure, I'll give you that. It sucks. Unfortunately that's the reality right now, without universal care. The current system rewards those who choose not to work and contribute and allows it to continue without even trying to lower costs.
  2. by   WashYaHands
    What about some kind of mandatory contribution to health care system? When I went to college the student society had a dental plan. Either I had to show that I had my own dental plan or I was forced to pay into theirs and be covered. Why not somehing like that, where the uninsured in America have to have some basic coverage somehow, even if it means paying into medicare?
    In the US, this is already done. The specific government deductions from our paychecks include Federal income tax, Social security tax (FICA) and Medicare tax.

    You may now return to your regularly scheduled debate.

    Linda
  3. by   Venti Cappucino
    Originally posted by WashYaHands
    In the US, this is already done. The specific government deductions from our paychecks include Federal income tax, Social security tax (FICA) and Medicare tax.

    However... there's a lot of folks who aren't covered under Medicare and Medicaid, who either cannot afford insurance or it isn't offered through their job.
  4. by   SmilingBluEyes
    good points, venti...what DO the working poor have as options and do we simply shut them out in the interest of preserving our "pursuits of happiness" and our own wealth, and the other rights guaranteed by our Constitution? Where do THEY turn, those who are doing their best but just can't make enough to do for themselves???? We are not just talking about lifestyles necessarily here, but sometimes you can't get a fair shake, in the line of work you are in. I know quite a few who put in 8-10 hours(or more) a day working legitimately, yet have NO $$ for insurance or coverage in their job situations. Jobs that offer fulltime bennies are getting harder to find, even in NURSING you know! These people I know pray day by day nothing catestophic happens....but luck and good health don't always hold out for the best job and/or insurance, we all know. What do we do about them? Forget 'em I guess many would say here huh?
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Jan 30, '03
  5. by   fergus51
    That's my point venti, thanks. The biggest complaint I see is that people don't contribute to any form of health insurance, then get healthcare and you rich folks have to pay for it. So why not a mandatory plan?
  6. by   Q.
    Deb,
    Those are difficult questions you raised. And I don't have answers.

    First and foremost perhaps, the insurance industry needs to be revamped then so that it is affordable for most people. I don't think there is going to be a way to have everyone covered, though. And I guess, when I was young and looking for jobs, part of my decision in accepting that job was the health insurance option. It was simply a priority for me. Otherwise, I kept looking. Do other people just not do this?

    I also understand that some small business cannot afford health insurance for it's employees, and after interviewing recently at a large corporation, also understood that the dollar amount that these companies shell out is astronomical! The reason they were interviewing nurses was to start with health prevention with these employees, so that inappropriate, expensive ER visits and mismanagement of their asthma/diabetes would be cut down, thus, the company's premium payments would be cut.

    But let's not forget that health care is going to be expensive, far more expensive than other countries. We have the most advanced medical technology in the world, and unfortunately that comes with a pricetag. How do we go about making sure that those appropriate industries/people are compensated, all while making sure that health care if "affordable" to every.....single......person......in the US.....(which by the way, the population keeps increasing!)

    I just don't see how we as a nation can demand the most advanced medical technology to save our butts, but then complain about the cost. Well one way to decrease cost is knock off all the research that's been done. Eliminate tamoxifen, Gamma Knife procedures, stem cell therapies, fetal surgeries, skin grafting....the list goes on. Maybe then health care will be considered "affordable." To me, it's kinda like wanting a huge 3,000 sq foot house but wondering why it doesn't cost the same as the 900 sq foot Bungalow.
    Last edit by Susy K on Jan 30, '03
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Fergus, in the case of working people, what that would amount is mandating employers to insure all employees, no matter what... Then, the complaints would come from them, rather than the average "rich" (gee I am rich?), person who is paying, now. Someone would always be crying they are paying more than their fair share to cover all. However, The money has to come from somewhere. What gets me is, it IS THERE...just we don't prioritize to make it happen. THAT is the problem as I see it.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Jan 30, '03
  8. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Originally posted by Susy K
    Deb,
    Those are difficult questions you raised. And I don't have answers.

    First and foremost perhaps, the insurance industry needs to be revamped then so that it is affordable for most people. I don't think there is going to be a way to have everyone covered, though. And I guess, when I was young and looking for jobs, part of my decision in accepting that job was the health insurance option. It was simply a priority for me. Otherwise, I kept looking. Do other people just not do this?

    I also understand that some small business cannot afford health insurance for it's employees, and after interviewing recently at a large corporation, also understood that the dollar amount that these companies shell out is astronomical! The reason they were interviewing nurses was to start with health prevention with these employees, so that inappropriate, expensive ER visits and mismanagement of their asthma/diabetes would be cut down, thus, the company's premium payments would be cut.

    But let's not forget that health care is going to be expensive, far more expensive than other countries. We have the most advanced medical technology in the world, and unfortunately that comes with a pricetag. How do we go about making sure that those appropriate industries/people are compensated, all while making sure that health care if "affordable" to every.....single......person......in the US.....(which by the way, the population keeps increasing!)

    I just don't see how we as a nation can demand the most advanced medical technology to save our butts, but then complain about the cost. Well one way to decrease cost is knock off all the research that's been done. Eliminate tamoxifen, Gamma Knife procedures, stem cell therapies, fetal surgeries, skin grafting....the list goes on. Maybe then health care will be considered "affordable." To me, it's kinda like wanting a huge 3,000 sq foot house but wondering why it doesn't cost the same as the 900 sq foot Bungalow.
    I agree 100% with you.....we have to temper what demands we place on our healthcare system in the way of technology and how far we push it. That is hard to do. Again, to me, it is about priorities. Gosh we can get into all sorts of ethical messes here...who has the right to push it how far? Transplants? Fertility issues? Experimental but potentially life-saving treatments? Who decides who has access to what? As a start, I just wish in my wee lil mind there were a way to secure basic care for all who need it...to include well-child visits, immunizations, well-adult visits, necessary medication coverage, catastrophic care, (not talking trauma here) etc. But to draw the line where? You raise some good points. I wish I had the answers. We all do, I guess.
  9. by   AHarri66
    Originally posted by kmchugh

    Logically, then health care cannot be a "right."

    Responses?

    Kevin McHugh
    Hear, Hear!! Clearly, logically, and succinctly put.

  10. by   Q.
    As a nurse though, we all know of, if not participated in, free or extremely low cost services that you mentioned: Healthy Start, WIC (that has nutrition counseling) free lifestyle classes, free toothbrushes (Hell, I did a health fair and gave out fruit!), free prenatal classes, the Public Health Department's free screenings and fairs....

    Are these not working?
  11. by   AHarri66
    IMO, 'the more you seed, the more you breed.'

    The more freebies are handed out, the more people there are in line to collect. Everyone believes they are 'entitled.'
  12. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by kmchugh
    Speech: I am free to hold any political view, distasteful or not, and publically espouse that view without fear of governmental retribution. The cost of this right to others? Zero. If you don't like what I have to say, you are free to debate me, or simply walk away if you don't want to hear it.
    The cost is Zero? How do you figure that when for example--and this is very simplistic--pro-life groups gather to exercise their first amendment rights outside of a Planned Parenthood. As it goes, the protesters usually need to be protected or the people who are at the crux of the protester's complaints need to be protected. Hence, police presence. Who pays for those police? Are they free too? And what if someone is violated by a protester? Do our courts not take the time to hear a case? Who pays for that? What about the human cost here? The price we pay for freedom is not only measured in dollars.

    If such a thing was allowed, then we would be in a position where the courts would be in a constant state of decision about whose rights were paramount.
    And they ARE in a constant state of decision but not about who's rights are paramount, but rather how not to infringe upon anyone's rights...that's what the state Federal Courts and the US Supreme Court are for...intreperting the Constitution, either state or US and it's/their amendments.

    Euthansia/ Right to die
    Abortion
    Women's rights
    Civil rights
    Prisoner's rights/crime
    Corporate rights
    Death penalty
    Gay rights
    Healthcare
    The environment
    Education
    Internet speech/privacy
    etc., etc.

    The judicial hearings, decisions, attorneys, etc., of these cases are not free. We pay for it all with our taxes whether you agree with the principle of the case or not. I'm not saying that's a bad thing unless of course I disagree with a change that is up for decision that affects me. Why should I pay for the time it takes these judges to make their decision when I don't agree with the change? But does this country rant and rave about that? No, and I think we don't because there is no stigma attached to the Supreme Court like there is to our underprivileged population (just a thought). It's kinda like what you're saying about paying for healthcare for individuals who cannot obtain it on their own. What's the difference?

    The point is that the rights intended in the constitution were there as freedoms. They do not have cost, and in order to grant one person those rights, we do not have to impose a burden on someone else.
    And this was the exact original idea, but NOT the way it is today and it hasn't been this way for decades and decades.

    "We must never forget that it is a constitution that we are expounding...intended to endure for ages to come, and consequently, to be adapted to the various crises of human affairs." -Chief Justice Marshall, 1801-1835

    That quote can be interpreted any way you want. But it's called a healthcare "crisis" for a reason. And the quote acknowledges that the Constitution is a document that needs constant explanation and adaptation.

    ~Sally
    Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Jan 30, '03
  13. by   Q.
    Here's another question.

    I work with low-income patients daily. As I enroll them into our research study, I draw the blood we need for the study, and at the same time I draw their prenatal labs. As a result, I fill out the lab's requisition slip and require the patient's insurance card. Today I had a 22 year old woman, pregnant with her second child, who reported to me that she finished high school and was working at Walmart. Yet, she handed me her Title 19 card. Why is she on T-19 when she's employed? Is Walmart's benefits that horrible?

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