Is Health Care a Right? - page 19

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More

  1. by   Q.
    Sally,
    It's becoming more and more apparent that you haven't read this entire thread. It even seems you read Kevin's post for the first time when I reposted it. You are not even taking my post, which was intended for Maureeno and Chigap, into context. I will not rehash this again and again with someone who seems to have just jumped into the conversation or hasn't kept up. My focus of my post to Maureeno wasn't even about responsibility. I was speaking in terms of progressive taxation, Sally. You must've missed that discussion.
    Last edit by Susy K on Jan 28, '03
  2. by   Sally_ICURN
    Susy, if you're interested, see my post #'s 25, 41, 42, 44, 47, 48, 58, 61, 101, 103, 115, 121, 139, 184, 189, 195, 206, 228, 232, 234, and now this one in this thread.

    I'm usually not this petty and I promise to stop now, but c'mon!
  3. by   Q.
    We had this same discussion 2 pages ago! I had to tell you then that I was referring to progressive taxation!

    And Sally, I was responding to the ideas a few posts back that the more left over money that Taxpayer B has, the more unfair it is to everyone else:


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The logic behind progresssive taxation Post #151

    Ordinary working people depend on their earnings to pay the rent and put bread on the table. Wealthier people have discretionary income left over after they pay for life's necessities.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For the last time, I was speaking to Maureeno in regards to her agreement with progressive taxation!!. I don't know how I can make this any more clearer.
  4. by   fab4fan
    One thing that bothers me about a flat tax rate is that it still winds up being unfair to the working poor-lower middle class families.

    These people usually don't have the resources to go to a good accountant, or put money aside in various tax shelters; wealthy people do. So, a poor family pays 20% on their total income, whereas a wealthier family is able to put money aside before taxes, which makes a big difference in how much tax they actually wind up paying.

    I'm not saying that if people have money left over after taking care of obligations they should have to hand it over. One should certainly be able to enjoy the fruits of one's hard work. But a tax system that winds up making the poor pay a disproportionate amount of taxes doesn't seem fair to me, either.
    Last edit by fab4fan on Jan 29, '03
  5. by   fergus51
    All who want universal healthcare: bleeding heart hippy liberals with no sense of personal responsibility

    All who want the status quo system: cruel bourgeois greedy ba$tards.

    Is this really what people think? I have a feeling it isn't the case.
  6. by   JMP
    The US consistantly ranks low on the World Health Organization's charts and indexes..... The US SPENDS the most......but RANKS far below many other nations for fairness, delivery etc.



    http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html
  7. by   JMP
    Susy et al...

    Does it not bother you that your country will pay 4 or 5 BILLION dollars to go to war.....yet so much of your OWN country is without health care?????????
  8. by   Nurse Ratched
    Originally posted by JMP
    The US consistantly ranks low on the World Health Organization's charts and indexes..... The US SPENDS the most......but RANKS far below many other nations for fairness, delivery etc.



    http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html
    So you agree with Suzy's point that the solution is not to throw more money at the problem, but to more efficiently manage the $ we are already spending, and to try and create a societal mindset that promotes personal responsibility? If other countries are doing more with less, then surely we could have the greatest health care system in the world.

    Our problem is that so many expect to abuse their bodies for years, and then manage the symptoms of the inevitably resulting medical problems with increasingly more expensive drugs and procedures, paid for by the gov't (i.e. their fellow citizens.)
  9. by   Q.
    I also think that our nation's health ranks below other nations because we are a nation of self-indulgence. We smoke, we're fat, we don't exercise, we eat like crap, and our teenagers still keep getting pregnant thus,which contributes to our poor birth outcomes. In another thread there are some of us who like to avoid the damage pot has on our bodies.

    Again, change our mindset and our health care system will improve.
  10. by   JMP
    If you take the time to read the report, lifestyle is not a factor.

    What is a factor is availability, fairness, ACCESS. Everyone, regardless of their age, INCOME, level of education, etc SHOULD ( and by the way, here they ALL DO) have access to health care. There simply is no good excuse that Americans do not. It should be a right of all people.

    Your health care system will not improve until it is stopped being managed like a business and run with fair and equal access.

    I remember when I was in the States, thinking about moving there, I was in the back of a cab with a young woman in her early thirties who was driving the cab. She had diabetes, born with it, COULD NOT GET health insurance and lived in fear every day that she would get sick and had no way to pay for it.

    Right there and then, I decided not to move there. I just simply could not justify in my mind, working in a health care system that was so unjust.
  11. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Originally posted by JMP
    Susy et al...

    Does it not bother you that your country will pay 4 or 5 BILLION dollars to go to war.....yet so much of your OWN country is without health care?????????
    Yes it does. EVERY day.
  12. by   Q.
    Originally posted by JMP
    If you take the time to read the report, lifestyle is not a factor.

    This is not directed at you personally JMP, but I find this very hard to believe. We are the most overweight nation in the world. As a result, we have diseases like heart disease, diabetes - to name a few, which eat up alot of our healthcare resources both in care management and in care for acute problems related to these.

    We also have the highest teen pregnancy rate. With teen pregnancies comes poor birth outcomes such as low birthweight, prematurity and other complications.

    We still continue to smoke, though overall smoking I heard is down 5% from anti-tobacco campaigns.

    Our mindset is totally f'ed up. I just attended a small lecture in which a physician who helps to run an inner-city clinic in our city was examining people's perception of health, namely, obesity. In children who were medically determined to be obese, over 70% of the parents to those children did not consider their weight a problem. How can our mindset not be a factor in our nation's health?

    I am puzzled how many people on this BB can state that preventative care will help the health care problem but at the same time, deny that diseases that are resulting from lifestyle choices do not impact our state of health.

    If we took two people and provided them the same equal access to health care that you are describing, I am fairly confident that if one of them continues to smoke, drink, eat fast-food and live a sedentary lifestyle and the other doesn't, that the person with the self-indulgent behavior will cost our health care system more in services rendered than his/her counterpart.
  13. by   mattsmom81
    Originally posted by JMP
    The US consistantly ranks low on the World Health Organization's charts and indexes..... The US SPENDS the most......but RANKS far below many other nations for fairness, delivery etc.



    http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html
    Well, I don't necessarily put a lot of stock in what 'world anything' thinks of America...as Europe et al do NOT represent me and seem to enjoy US bashing of late.

    The Canadian and British health care system are not without their problems..I hear many complaints...long waits, nursing home placements across the province, etc etc. Government bureaucracy in action and I hate government involvement in our lives anyway...more government is NEVER my solution to problems.

    Good health care IS expensive and we have one of the best (if not THE best) in the world...or else why would so many foreigners come here for it?

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