Importing nurses from the Phillipines - page 8
My hospital is working on getting nurses from the Phillipines to fill some of our needs. We have been in the paper process for almost a year and now it looks like we actually will be getting some of... Read More
Oct 23, '02Hi -jt,
I agree with you, but you misunderstood me because you would not know how the UK nursing is organised.(but not for long because it is all being changed again).The person that remark was made to is in the UK and was bragging about having a Masters Degree,while criticising others.I don't believe him/her.
I know that a Masters is common in the USA, but here it is not so.there are no 'taught' Masters for nursing,just guided research.
I have never heard of an 'ordinary' nurse in the UK having a masters degree.That would be for an academic or a senior manager. Maybe a nurse researcher, or educator, but most of those do not either.It is so hard, and there are only a few in the whole country.
As I said before, nursing degrees only started here a few years ago, whereas in the USA I read that it was just after WW2. These days one can study for a diploma or a degree. They are both national standards. If you pass either, you are entitled to registration.There is no other exam. The only difference will be the letters after your RN.
You will get on fine in the UK you will not find any anti -American discrimination here,especially in the workplace.Its illegal-and enforced.
I love it here,and I love visiting nearby countries.No one ever discriminated against me or ever made any racially offensive remark to me.I know many other Filipinos here who tell me the same. Everyone is friendly and unlike in our country WE ARE FREE.
Oct 23, '02Gomer
What are you talking about the US paying $20,000 for British nurses?
In the UK all nurse training is totally free.It is paid for by the British taxpayer.Not only that, there are thousands of foreign nurses getting free training here,as it has been for many years..
I am one of them,but I will be staying here as it is now my home.
Student nurses get maintenance allowances free medical cover etc. They can work if they like,and many do. They can also have their families with them.
The UK is also desperately short of nurses,worse than the US. The capital,London has a 40% shortfall.Why steal from here?
Not only will the British tax payer lose out,but the UK will be short of yet another nurse.
Another thing.British citizens don't need a visa to enter the USA.
They can just buy a ticket and go, then stay as long as they like.
They don't need or want a green card to work there, just a work permit,which for a uk nurse is vitually immediate.Thats the same for citizens of every west European country.
For your info. Florry is a Norwegian in Norway not the UK, and she was not criticising Filipino nurses,just giving her opinion,which unlike back in the Philippines,she is perfectly entitled to.Considering that, her English is good.How is your Norwegian?(One of the oldest languages in the world, and which has contributed much to English- the Viking invasion!!)
You said that English is not your native language.That's true,but what is? I bet it is not the same as mine! Because the Philippines does not have one .It has tried to push Tagalog, the tribal language.
Filipino.What makes you proud?Our nation is made up of a bunch islands forced together by foreigners, first the Spanish,then the Americans. Since independence in 1948 we have been fighting among ourselves.The same rich clique are always on top in the government. What are we known for? Abject poverty of the masses,total official corruption,religeous bigotry, and of course being the biggest exporter of cheap labour in the history of the world.
As for the PNA in the USA, just Manila trying to control still.
Stay out of my life
Oct 23, '02My understanding is that any nurse trained outside of the US must take a proficiency exam in order to be allowed to practice here in any capacity and call themselves RNs. This is part of the "red tape" one hears so much about. Nurses in Russia who wish to come here and practice must first travel to Europe (Prague?) to take this exam. As this is a hardship for most, few of us have had the pleasure of working with a Russian collegue.Russia, Iraq, Phillipines are places where alot of hardship exsists.Those that immigrate from there to here are individuals that have the means,whether that is financial or chutzpah or something else. My experience is that educated people often find the means. English is an educational reguiement in the Phillipines. If your homeland was such a difficult place to exsist and you felt you needed to leave to go to a place where the culture was different and people didnt like you or were suspicious of your accent, looks, etc. how would you deal with that? I say it takes a strong person to follow through with what is clearly a grueling ordeal in a attempt for a better life for them and theirs. I knew a nurse from the Phollipines who left behind 3 children under 10 to come here and WORK- her husband was here too, He was a pharmacist. I just want to say god bless em
Oct 23, '02apol-UK Here in the United States of California we would welcome you. It's even foggy today.
Oct 23, '02Hi Psychnurse,
Not quite right.
What people from many countries have to do is first find a US facility that is willing to employ them based on an application made from their home or wherever they are.It may be in answer to an advertisement.If the employer wants you,it is up to them to get you a work permit, and they will normally get you there as well. On arrival in the US you will have to work as an auxilliary until you can pass your state board,or in the case of some states and nurses from a few countries,be exempted.
Very recently, due to the nursing shortage,the US has been setting up several examination centres in areas it hopes to recruit from. One new one will be London. Very convenient for all the foreign nurses working there.
The US,like most countries,does not just allow people to wander around looking for a job.(Unless they are from western Europe)
If Russian nurses are wanted,you can bet your bottom dollar the big US nurse agencies would be advertising there and arranging everything,just as they do for Filipinos.
The snags are,few Russian nurses speak English.
Russia still does not just allow people to leave the country when they feel like it.Otherwise they would have already been working all over Europe.The US is not encouraging Russians either.
Oct 23, '02I have another of my dumb questions -- especially for those RN's working in Great Britain. Years ago (during the last nursing shortage) we tried to recruit British/Scottish/Irish nurses but ran into the problem of skill. At that time (about 15 years ago) those nurses didn't start IV's and had little or no skill in that area. Do RN's in GB have IV competency now? Told you it was a dumb question.
Oct 23, '02"In the UK all nurse training is totally free.It is paid for by the British taxpayer.Not only that, there are thousands of foreign nurses getting free training here,as it has been for many years..
I am one of them,but I will be staying here as it is now my home. "
Well, I guess that tells us that free education is not going to be the answer to alleviating the shortage here in the USA.
How nice, that so many countries can afford to provide free university educations for their citizens but here in the USA it cost literally a small fortune to recieve a 4 year college education unless you have a or a God forbid, sports
But then, since our supposed quality of living is so much better than other countries, our dollars worth more, people want to come here and take advantage of these things.
So, my question, is the quality of life really better here than in the Phillipines? or other countries?????
My own husband is from Rome, Italy and why is it that we don't see many Europeans here? Maybe the quality of life in their own countries is better??? I know in Italy for the most part it is. People do not work like dogs without vacations, holidays, etc. like here. They do value those aspects of their own cultures. Employers shut down companies for a week at Christmas, in August unlike here. University education is basically free there compared to what college tuition costs here. Granted some living expenses are more expensive like utilities, gasoline, but the strong family ties if you have them outway some of that. Italy has its own share of poor people but their socialized government at least gives them some access to health care and retirement pensions.
Oct 23, '02Hi Imeejon. I believe that criticizing and giving opinion are two totally different words. I just aired my views on what Florry has written about the Filipino nurses. I don't have anything against her, I don't even know her. I stand corrected. I thought she was living in the UK.
About "Tagalog", it is my native language. However, yes, you are partly right about "Tagalog" being pushed... as the NATIONAL language not the native language.
I don't know why you are quite against the Filipinos, considering that you are ONE OF US. No matter how long someone had lived in a foreign country, granted his British/American citizenship, or probably have reconstructive surgery...he is, and always will be, a FILIPINO.
Yes, the Philippines is probably known for the "not-so-good" impressions being sensationalized by media, by people, by fellow Filipinos who forgot where they originally come from. I am still proud to say that despite of all of these, I'm still proud to be called a Filipino. What am I proud of? The rich heritage we've got, the beautiful sceneries, our hospitality, closely knit families, respect for the elderly, known for bravery (i.e. people's power), hardworkers, adaptability,etc.
Yes, we also have flaws like poverty (same with other developing countries), pollution (most of the countries have that), corruption (is Philippines the only country known for it), bombings (like what's happening in some parts of London), etc.
Imeejon, sometimes, we just have to take both sides instead of concentrating on one side...it has to be fair, isn't it? Thanks for replying. God bless.
Oct 23, '02I spent time in the Philippines when a friend invited me to recuperate there. I was in the middle of chemotherapy and needed the warmth of the sun. Many people I met there were poverty stricken. The lady who did laundry for me lived in a shack with dirt floors. The children had never seen flush toilets.
I had a wonderful time getting to know these people, bringing them ice cream and polishing the little girls' nails red like mine. I will never forget how little they had and yet how genererous they were. They did not understand English, but they understood "chemotherapy". They brought me food, little gifts, and one woman even came to clean our home, knowing I needed extra precautions for cleanliness. I promised God that if I survived the cancer, I would come back when I was stronger and do volunteer nursing for these beautiful people.
I did survive; I have made one trip so far, and I intend to go back at least once a year.
When I object to Filipino nurses coming to America, it is because it's just wrong to ask anyone to work without breaks, without meals, and under such stressful conditions, no matter if they are American, Irish, or Filipino.Last edit by NancyRN on Oct 23, '02
Oct 24, '02Nursing is a mobile profession, one of its few advantages. An idividuals, Nursing acreditation and practical experience is recognised on an international level. So why should a nurse be denied the right to practice on the international stage, just because they come from asia. All heath systems are rigidly regulated, therefore one would assume that if they are registered or can gain registration in a given country, then they are competent to practice. Good luck to them:kiss
Oct 25, '02"So why should a nurse be denied the right to practice on the international stage, just because they come from asia. All heath systems are rigidly regulated, therefore one would assume that if they are registered or can gain registration in a given country, then they are competent to practice. Good luck to them"
The issue is not whether or not they are competent to practice but whether or not a country is adequately protecting it's own workers from deplorable working conditions which by itself is causing a shortage which needs to be corrected BEFORE bringing in more help thus delaying the need for correction.
Oct 25, '02"all health systems are rigidly regulated"
That may be so in most advanced countries, but in many others regulation is either non-existent or a joke.That is why so many countries require careful checking before someone is admitted to their register.
What about those countries which are diploma mills where corruption is the norm and your professor will accept cash as a prerequisite? Where there are no further checks after initial registration,no continuing education requirements, and where a nurse has NEVER been struck off except for not paying her annual registration fee?
In the UK, it is rare that a nurse is struck off.Perhaps that is because(apparently like the USA) you have to be dedicated to put up with the low pay,long hours and poor working conditions.
Very few countries in the world allow immigration,unless you are the spouse or child of a citizen, or maybe just rich.Your country does allow certain skilled workers,which at present includes nurses from some countries.So does the USA of course.
Foreign nurses in the UK must leave when their contract finishes.
I agree with you. In the last year some 13,000 filipino nurses arrived in the UK where they will earn at least 20 times what they would get at home. As a result,discussions on substantial salary increases and other improvements have gone quiet.It needs about 40% on basic to catch up with other graduate earnings,but
right now 3% MAY come-sometime!For the Government the heat is off.Also,as most of those nurses have filled the bottom level jobs,there are now few of those advertised,and new graduates may no longer find vacancies in their area.
10 years ago there were few vacancies in the UK. Oh yes, there were not enough nurses,but no one was willing to pay for more. All over the country they were being fired,as reorganised hospitals, run by accountants, employed care assistants instead.
If the government changes here,it will may happen again.It is sad that next time the nurses may be saved,as just like the USA,they are gradually having to take on the work of doctors!
Nov 8, '02I am glad someone said it first! But here it goes, I probably will get tons of hate mail for this one...
Nursing - especially in the hospital - involves lots of critical thinking and problem solving. You must think outside the box. Sudden changes in staffing, patient condition, etc., call for innovative decisions.
What are the Phillipines known for? Cheap labor...ie, "Made in the Phillipines" Any inventions come to mind? The automobile? The airplane? New medicine? New technology? New weapons?
It is very hard for me to swallow the rote answers to nursing challenges I am fed by Phillipino supervisors. They won't listen to rationale or new ideas. They are great for reciting policy and procedure and saying "Yes, sir, doctor, sir..." Not "i think we need to think this through or look at new ideas." When I don't have time to check the P&P book, I ask a Phillipino nurse - and get the answer - so there is a bright side, right?
So there it is, I am very frustrated with the current situation I am dealing with. Can you tell? I have a Phillipino supervisor who won't listen to reason, she will work you like a dog - and enjoy it. She even told us we need "discipline". Yet she is good at bowing to authority - so our complaints go unheard.
Give me someone with critical thinking skills, reason, logic, an open mind. I have NO interest in working with more "cheap labor."
And in the process, keeping my working conditions and salary DOWN.