HEY GOP: Attacking Hillary Isn't a Health Plan - page 2

when even a magazine called "the american conservative" counsels] the republican presidential candidates that they can't live on hillary-hate alone, something is happening. as nurses fighting for... Read More

  1. by   MAISY, RN-ER
    For the poster who thinks education and hard work gets you health care, you obviously have never been in management or looking for health care plans. I have, and I can tell you a company's only concern is saving money for themselves and offering whatever plan fits that bill (their agenda)! If you think you are safe, you are sadly mistaken. No one is safe, unless they have contracts with the federal government or are a CEO with a written guarentee.

    Hillary may not be your choice for president-however, if her plan is the same plan from the 90's-SO WHAT! At least she has been steadfast in her beliefs, instead of just jumping on an election bandwagon. I believe all politicians have to give lip service just to win, however, she has remained a champion of the poor and the rights of Americans to be healthy for more than this election.

    The GOP wannabe presidents along with their current president all have enough money to choose any physician they want, engage in any healthcare practices needed, or have federally funded(have a colonscopy) like George W. Why shouldn't others have that same opportunity.

    If you are the bread winner in your family, can you afford to be sick? If you work for a small company and they let you go due to an extended illness-can you afford the thousands in monthly cobra costs? If you are a healthcare provider who has done those constant million dollar workups, and then hurt yourself-who will pay for your MRI, or CT scan-then rehab? Will there be a light duty position for you or the unemployment registry?

    There are many things to consider when speaking to this subject. Right now in this country, many middle class working families are only a couple of paychecks from homelessness, mortgage default, or bankruptcy. It doesn't take much to ruin a "well educated" life.

    I can't even address the immigrants, :angryfire without becoming angry at posters who blame them for everything!

    The truth is this, America needs to take care of it's own. Perhaps, educate our doctors and nurses for free and let them provide free care at clinics for a guarenteed time. The military does it with service, why not the American government? Maybe then, poor Americans can become educated, provide needed services to their old neighborhoods, and move on to the middle class-leaving healthy children and adults who can continue that same path.

    There are lots of solutions, just no one willing to take a stand.

    Maisy
  2. by   Armygirl7
    CRNA: "There is no crisis for health care in this country except from the influx of illegal aliens into the health care market. Get rid of the illegal aliens and that will solve the majority of problems with the current health care 'crisis.'"

    Wow dude. Did you really say this? I don't know where you get your data but here's a real world idea: Walk around this great nation of ours and talk to average American Citizens about their healthcare. Then tell me there is no crisis.

    When you say "get rid of the illegal aliens" what's YOUR PLAN for that???!!!
    Last edit by Armygirl7 on Oct 25, '07 : Reason: missing address
  3. by   HM2VikingRN
    Maisy,
    Thank you for the thoughtful and well written post.
  4. by   CRNA2007
    Read my earlier posts about the tactics of the left including "A paycheck away from homelessness" Where are all these people please show me? Show me the guy working 4 minimum wage jobs to make ends meet. Show me the people chossing between dog food and their medicine. Or the classic 47 million uninsured or the 3 million homeless. No proof of any of this. You want the same health care as the President, then become the President or a Senator. Of course that requires education and hard work. It's not hard to be successful in this country it is quite easy. Now if your education is in underwater basket weaving then you're right you ain't gonna get any health care. I hated bedside nursing but I did it because it paid well had great benefits and was a stepping stone to better opportunites in this country. When Hillary stops pandering and starts putting up her millions of dollars instead of everyone elses money then she might earn some respect until then she's just another political hack pandering for votes.





    Quote from MAISY, RN-ER
    For the poster who thinks education and hard work gets you health care, you obviously have never been in management or looking for health care plans. I have, and I can tell you a company's only concern is saving money for themselves and offering whatever plan fits that bill (their agenda)! If you think you are safe, you are sadly mistaken. No one is safe, unless they have contracts with the federal government or are a CEO with a written guarentee.

    Hillary may not be your choice for president-however, if her plan is the same plan from the 90's-SO WHAT! At least she has been steadfast in her beliefs, instead of just jumping on an election bandwagon. I believe all politicians have to give lip service just to win, however, she has remained a champion of the poor and the rights of Americans to be healthy for more than this election.

    The GOP wannabe presidents along with their current president all have enough money to choose any physician they want, engage in any healthcare practices needed, or have federally funded(have a colonscopy) like George W. Why shouldn't others have that same opportunity.

    If you are the bread winner in your family, can you afford to be sick? If you work for a small company and they let you go due to an extended illness-can you afford the thousands in monthly cobra costs? If you are a healthcare provider who has done those constant million dollar workups, and then hurt yourself-who will pay for your MRI, or CT scan-then rehab? Will there be a light duty position for you or the unemployment registry?

    There are many things to consider when speaking to this subject. Right now in this country, many middle class working families are only a couple of paychecks from homelessness, mortgage default, or bankruptcy. It doesn't take much to ruin a "well educated" life.

    I can't even address the immigrants, :angryfire without becoming angry at posters who blame them for everything!

    The truth is this, America needs to take care of it's own. Perhaps, educate our doctors and nurses for free and let them provide free care at clinics for a guarenteed time. The military does it with service, why not the American government? Maybe then, poor Americans can become educated, provide needed services to their old neighborhoods, and move on to the middle class-leaving healthy children and adults who can continue that same path.

    There are lots of solutions, just no one willing to take a stand.

    Maisy
  5. by   MAISY, RN-ER
    Dear CRNA 2007,

    You don't have to look far for poverty-open your eyes and it is all around you!

    There are many people working several jobs and if you don't know any, then I would guess your awesome education has elevated you to the status of someone like say George W., you live in Malibu, in Trump Towers, or on a deserted island(that you own of course).

    With the salary my husband and I make, we could live like royalty in many parts of these GREAT UNITED STATES, however, we live in one of the highest taxed areas of the country that offers CHOICE to be us. Where people truly make up a melting pot, and differences are not a crime.

    There are many people that don't look, because they DON'T WANT TO SEE. Hunger is real, making choices between eating and taking meds is real. Having cancer and no options is real. TAKE YOUR BLINDERS OFF AND WALK AMONG THE REAL PEOPLE. Teachers, Firemen, Police Officers, Nurses-all educated people. Look at their lives, find out about them. I can guarentee they make choices all the time due to finances, or lack there of. Many nurses I work with, must work to survive. What would happen to them if they got cancer, or to their kids, or to their elderly parents. THERE IS NO SAFETY NET FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS. NO ONE IS CATCHING ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO SERVE if they fall.

    What I never understand from people who are against healthcare programs (especially a nurse), is if we don't take care of children, and those who need it-what does that say about us and our society? I SAY SELFISH AND SELF ABSORBED. Some day, if you have nothing, maybe those same children who went without, will be on the ethics committee that says you aren't worth saving . Face it, you and others like you will have made THEIR ethics that way-by your lack of caring and action when it mattered. During their formative years.

    While I realize this debate will continue as we come to these elections, I truly wish there was a way to walk in another's shoes. I would suggest looking for the series in which this guy lived on minimum wage for 30 days and how hard it was. It was interesting how difficult it was for a white, good looking, well-spoken, educated 30ish male alone to cut it. Imagine any other scenario and insert, race, creed, sex, education, etc. Or there was a book Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Eirenreich, an author and newspaper reporter (with advanced education)who did the same thing. It was the most interesting read of my life, and if my eyes weren't open before, they were after reading it! Again, the protagonist is white, well educated and well spoken. Her experiences actually made me squirm, and made me compelled to answer postings like these!

    Anyway, since education is prominent in your posts. I suggest you educate yourself, on the many truths of American Society. Not just the ones you are comfortable with or fit the "Republican Agenda".



    Maisy
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    COBRA is one resource. But it does not help all the time. I have a couple of very good friends who have worked (and have university degrees, by the way) that cannot get adequate health care for themselves or families at all. The problem is not lack of education or ambition, but of jobs that are offering any form of health care coverage or one that is comprehensive enough to really COVER THEM at ALL!!!! The one friend (and her sons) are is COBRA-eligible---that is, if she is ready to fork over nearly $1000 a month. She says "well if I HAD $1000/month to spend, I would not have this problem in the first place!!!! It's all I can do to keep a roof over our heads and food and clothing for the kids."

    So true.

    She has never *NOT* worked even when going to school fulltime for her bachelor's degee, but yet, has had years of frightening gaps in health care coverage for herself and sons. This is disgusting and wrong on so many levels in a country so wealthy and resourceful. I am disgraced and angry just thinking about it. The post before mine states something that is true; there is no safety net for the middle/working class. I remember our President saying himself, "well anyone can have health care, that is what emergency rooms are for". So out of touch, it's unreal. And by the way, the ERs are NOT just crowded by "illegal aliens" as you call them, but all manner and sorts of humanity who are trying to access healthcare that should have been addressed PREVENTIVELY if they had had insurance/coverage in the first place. There are abusers, sure, but that is everyplace. It won't get better when you have people like our own President encouraging people to get their "healthcare" in these overrun and understaffed ED's now will it?

    As to topic, I am with Steph. I would love to see BOTH parties STOP the mudslinging already and tackle the very real issues affecting our lives, and more importantly, those of our most precious resource: OUR CHILDREN. Enough already. Let's roll up our sleeves and get it done!!!
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Oct 25, '07
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    "Nickle and Dimed" was a very uncomfortable read----but well worth the time, I agree.

    Sorry to be OT.
  8. by   CRNA2007
    Because one has a university degree does not guarantee them healthcare (read reference to underwater basket weaving). We have so much redundancy in safety nets in this country that one will never hit bottom. As far as children going hungry I don't see it. We give out free lunches, free breakfasts, and we have a huge epidemic in childhood obesity.

    You choose to live in a high tax state that is not my problem and not a reason to demand someone else pay for your health care because someone can't afford to live in Manhattan or somewhere similar. You might be tired of the I've got mine mentality but I am more tired of the I got yours mentality. If there are truly 47 million uninsured in this country and there are 20 million illegals in this country then that is close to 50% of the uninsured using up valuable resources for our own citizens. If Democrats aren't willing to tackle illegal immigration then the rest of their mindless pandering is pointless.



    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    COBRA is one resource. But it does not help all the time. I have a couple of very good friends who have worked (and have university degrees, by the way) that cannot get adequate health care for themselves or families at all. The problem is not lack of education or ambition, but of jobs that are offering any form of health care coverage or one that is comprehensive enough to really COVER THEM at ALL!!!! The one friend (and her sons) are is COBRA-eligible---that is, if she is ready to fork over nearly $1000 a month. She says "well if I HAD $1000/month to spend, I would not have this problem in the first place!!!! It's all I can do to keep a roof over our heads and food and clothing for the kids."

    So true.

    She has never *NOT* worked even when going to school fulltime for her bachelor's degee, but yet, has had years of frightening gaps in health care coverage for herself and sons. This is disgusting and wrong on so many levels in a country so wealthy and resourceful. I am disgraced and angry just thinking about it. The post before mine states something that is true; there is no safety net for the middle/working class. I remember our President saying himself, "well anyone can have health care, that is what emergency rooms are for". So out of touch, it's unreal. And by the way, the ERs are NOT just crowded by "illegal aliens" as you call them, but all manner and sorts of humanity who are trying to access healthcare that should have been addressed PREVENTIVELY if they had had insurance/coverage in the first place. There are abusers, sure, but that is everyplace. It won't get better when you have people like our own President encouraging people to get their "healthcare" in these overrun and understaffed ED's now will it?

    As to topic, I am with Steph. I would love to see BOTH parties STOP the mudslinging already and tackle the very real issues affecting our lives, and more importantly, those of our most precious resource: OUR CHILDREN. Enough already. Let's roll up our sleeves and get it done!!!
  9. by   MAISY, RN-ER
    CRNA2007,

    There but for the Grace of God go you.....and yours. Get your head out of the sand! People are suffering, don't eat, get medical care, are cold, without a place to lay their heads, without friend or resources.

    I have heard of young people joining the military for a way out of poverty, and a guarenteed meal, housing, and medical. Get life's basic essentials, all you need to do is fight George W's war, oh, and maybe die....

    How sad that anyone that wears the mantel of nurse is so cold with people's existance. I feel sorry for you and anyone else who espouses your ideals, or lack thereof.

    Will keep you in my prayers that you may be enlightened to what is right and decent in this world. WWJD? That was a popular saying amongst the Republican right-I can guarentee you would not be on HIS good list right now-HE championed the poor and underprivilaged.

    By the way, sure JESUS was a Democrat!
    Maisy
    Last edit by MAISY, RN-ER on Oct 25, '07 : Reason: Forgotten line
  10. by   CRNA2007
    So again you don't know anyone that did this just heard it. Seems a lot of Dems just hear things. Having been in the military I have never seen one. Enough of the platitudes give us some substance. Put forth all these 4 minimum wage job earners, let's see the people one paycheck away from being homeless. Let's see all the elderly alpo eaters. Let's see the 47 million uninsured. I don't want to hear about them I want to see them.


    Quote from MAISY, RN-ER
    CRNA2007,

    I have heard of young people joining the military for a way out of poverty, and a guarenteed meal, housing, and medical. Get life's basic essentials, all you need to do is fight George W's war, oh, and maybe die....
  11. by   MAISY, RN-ER
    Quote from CRNA2007
    So again you don't know anyone that did this just heard it. Seems a lot of Dems just hear things. Having been in the military I have never seen one. Enough of the platitudes give us some substance. Put forth all these 4 minimum wage job earners, let's see the people one paycheck away from being homeless. Let's see all the elderly alpo eaters. Let's see the 47 million uninsured. I don't want to hear about them I want to see them.
    What state do you live in? I am sure we could hook you up. Call your local social services, community agencies or churches for a lead-I can guarentee they will have several stories to tell.

    How can you be a functioning person, and not see this country"s troubles around you? I am not sure what to make of you and your comments.

    If you were in the military you'd know there were many who joined for the very reasons I cited.

    Please don't respond further until you follow up on your ridiculous statements. Seek and ye shall find....there is plenty to see! Then, make a difference and stop spouting hateful comments and lies that others may actually believe.

    I have to wonder what type of education narrows it's student instead of broadening their horizons. I just don't see how it is possible with 24 hour news/reporting and internet access that you can even question these things.

    Maisy
  12. by   Armygirl7
    CRNA "Put forth all these 4 minimum wage job earners, let's see the people one paycheck away from being homeless. Let's see all the elderly alpo eaters. Let's see the 47 million uninsured. I don't want to hear about them I want to see them."

    Well, if you WANT to see them then all you have to do is open your eyes and LOOK.

    Seriously.

    Personally, I don't listen to Dems or Reps I SEE with my own eyes and HEAR with my own ears. Observe and assess.

    I don't know where you live - but where I live I see a lot of unnecessary suffering, a lot of uninsured people (myself included), and a lot of people with insurance who still can't get the care they need paid for. And I'm talkin' about American Citizens who have jobs.

    I myself (born in the U.S.A.!) HAVE worked 3 jobs at one time just to survive....and I am currently uninsured. Luckily I am healthy, genetically blessed, non-smoker, low BMI, so I'm not in need right now [knock wood]. But I will never have an issue with lots of my tax dollars going to fund health insurance for low-income families and children.

    You've said in your posts "the dems say this" and "the dems say that" and "show me" but seriously dude where ARE you getting your information?


    I never believe a word out of ANY politician's mouth, and no I have never seen a person eating alpo. Why even take that bait and get riled up about that kind of propaganda? There is equal and opposite nonsense coming from the Rep. propaganda machine. But the OP had a valid point - simply attacking Clinton doesn't answer the question of how to deal with the health insurance/no health insurance mess that lots of Americans are in.

    You have to break out a little and see what's really going on with your own eyes. I mean if you're not out here, real world, seeing what I'm seeing then you must live a very, very sheltered life.

    You're obviously a really together person who can take care of himself. But try to have some compassion for all the folks who aren't as blessed as you and who struggle and suffer in circumstances DIFFERENT than yours, humans who just can't behave/think like you cuz: They aren't you!
  13. by   pickledpepperRN
    Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
    That saved a wretch like me!
    I once was lost, but now am found,
    Was blind, but now I see.

    http://www.homeless.org.au/pictures/

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