Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 53

by Asystole RN 50,747 Views | 622 Comments

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the... Read More


  1. 1
    Quote from toekneejo
    I totally agree they need to get themselves insurance. It's not very good "consumer math" to be able to afford insurance and yet still be paying as a self pay. Whether insurance is available thru the workplace or not does not necessarily mean it is going to cost less (especially once the ACA has totally been initiated). If they can afford it, they need to go shopping around and find a plan that meets their needs. If they look into various organizations they may even be able to get into a group insurance plan. In addition, if there are so many people that fit into this category then they can call up BC/BS or fill in the blank insurance company and actually "create" a group plan. Sort of like what the small business org has done for self employed people. A back yard mechanic who is self employed and yet is barely getting by or maybe he is the most successful one in town. Either way they both would qualify to open a policy that has group rates and bargaining power.
    Thank you. I don't know if he has tried to purchase individual coverage, but I will ask. He has Addison's disease, so I don't think they can refuse him, but I'm not sure if that will make the premiums much higher. Insurance premiums and taxes hurt, I know, but have any of you ever priced a CT scan or MRI without coverage? I'm not talking about a routine physical or routine labs, here. Some people need special labwork, tests, scans and procedures that are outrageous without insurance. The steroids he has to take every day for the rest of his life are also expensive and I think he goes without sometimes.

    If he doesn't take his steroids for awhile, he can all of a sudden become severely hypotensive, disoriented and incontinent. Someone will call an ambulance or rush him to the ER and he ends up in ICU for days. He's 27 years old. The above scenario happened to him twice before he was diagnosed. He was lucky then, he was covered by his father's insurance. If this happened to him tomorrow because he struggles to pay for his medication, guess who foots the bill then?

    I've never known him to have his nails done and he doesn't own a smart phone. I think he's more concerned with paying his share of the rent in the apartment he shares with a roommate, gas for his old battered car, food to eat and his community college tuition. I'm pretty sure any leftover money he has from his full-time job he uses to buy his steroid tablets.
    lindarn likes this.
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    I don't think the people who post about 'forgoing' getting their nails done, etc. Have any real life experience in life without health care themselves. I have a friend, who had a stroke at 33 years old. She lost her job at the health care facility we worked at because she needed to be on light duty and a shorter work schedule at first but 'couldn't meet the requirements for the job.' despite all of her coworkers going to the DON and offering our vacation time and support with her patient care. She lost her job and health benefits. They even challenged her unemployment - but she won that judgement. She made too much money last year to qualify for help this year. I helped to organize fund raising for her. I helped find services for her and her children. Yes - there is help out there but it's sporadic, regional and not anywhere near enough for the actual costs of health care. And no, not all hospitals will negotiate. Like I pointed out before, many bankruptsys are due to medical bills. Look it up.
    lindarn and JMBnurse like this.
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    [QUOTE=JMBnurse
    Not directed at just you, CountyRat, but what should Americans who work full time and can't get insurance coverage do? I know many people in this situation. Some with medical conditions that require medication and regular follow-up care and they don't receive it because they cannot afford it and they do not qualify for Medicaid.
    What should they do?[/QUOTE]

    JMBnurse, I apologize for taking so long to reply to your post.

    One of the burdens that we who oppose the ACA must bear is the assumption that because we do not support that law, we oppose fixing what is wrong with our healthcare system, which is not true. However, this thread is about whether healthcare is an inherent human right. In my post I tried to address that question without expanding to other questions.

    I would be very interested to know what you think of the argument I offered for why healthcare cannot be a right, but rather, is a need. Is anything that I wrote inaccurate? I hope that I hear from you JMBnurse. I would like to read your comments in response.

    Best wishes.
    toekneejo likes this.
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    You know-we all know people who have terrible stories of health problems that are expensive. We have people with insurance who also file for bankruptcy for catastrophic illness cost. Are these the norm? When we are in a general forum we talk in general terms, and some people will always fall out of the loop-while on ACA. Is healthcare cost out of control? Yes. Is some reform needed? Yes. Is Obama Care the answer? Not in my opinion. There is a need for the feds to be out of the situation. States need to run their medicaid programs, adjust their tax situation to fund the program and run it adequately and responsibly. Is that something I can influence? Yes at the ballot box, being involved in my organizations (nursing and political), and writing to my congressional representatives. I can become certified in my specialty, so that I can be a clinical expert and be used to review and consult in legal issues.

    Healthcare is a need/not a right. We have a moral and ethical obligation based on our religious and moral belief systems, which can vary greatly, as to what we should do for our fellowman. Not everyone is obliged to help the downtrodden. Not everyone feels we should ignore our neighbor. But we all are individuals and should pay into established programs as required by law with established taxes, and do extra as we are led by conscience.
    toekneejo likes this.
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    Quote from CountyRat
    JMBnurse, I apologize for taking so long to reply to your post.

    One of the burdens that we who oppose the ACA must bear is the assumption that because we do not support that law, we oppose fixing what is wrong with our healthcare system, which is not true. However, this thread is about whether healthcare is an inherent human right. In my post I tried to address that question without expanding to other questions.

    I would be very interested to know what you think of the argument I offered for why healthcare cannot be a right, but rather, is a need. Is anything that I wrote inaccurate? I hope that I hear from you JMBnurse. I would like to read your comments in response.

    Best wishes.
    Sorry, CountyRat, we have been hashing out whether or not healthcare is a right for almost 3 weeks now, so the discussion has expanded a little from time to time. I believe that you are correct- Healthcare is a need. I also believe it is a human right. I believe for too long now in this country it has been a privilege and therein lies the problem. I believe that healthcare should be attainable and affordable for all, not just wealthy people and people who graduated from college and have good jobs like most of the posters here. I am not as worried about the poor as we have provided healthcare for them. I am more concerned about those who work hard every day and still do not have access to affordable decent healthcare. I think that is a travesty. As a nurse and a mother, I worry about parents debating whether to take their child to the doctor or an emergency room because they don't have the money and it may be something serious. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about abusers and people who play the system as I believe that is a small percentage and it will be there no matter what we do. Thank you for your response.
    RNfaster, laborer, and lindarn like this.
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    "I believe that you are correct- Healthcare is a need. I also believe it is a human right. I believe for too long now in this country it has been a privilege and therein lies the problem."

    I could make a case that "healthcare" is not a need, but that is a discussion for another thread and another place. As for it being a human right, it is not. You have a right to your life and your property, but not to the lives of other's and their property, which includes their goods and services. Healthcare is a service. You are not entitled to someone else providing you their service for free. This would essentially be slavery. I think we can all agree that slavery is wrong.


    Additionally, as I've said before, healthcare in the US is not exclusively reserved as a privilege for the rich. Any hospital that accepts federal funds must treat you regardless of your ability to pay. This is one of the biggest myths being permeated today. That you can't get care if you are poor. In all actuality, you get better care if you are poor because the government, through the theft of others, will foot the bill. Health care is expensive. I don't go to work everyday for free, and neither do any of my co-workers. This is something I think the proponents of the ACA seem to ignore or are completely hypocritical on.

    They love to champion the rights of the "poor" whom I've also pointed out before aren't even truly poor, they have cell phones, internet, food, shelter, etc. etc. Try not having water safe to drink or knowing where your next meal will come from, that's poor.

    Yet these very same people go to work everyday and make a decent wage, but I never see them at the local churches volunteering for free community meals. I never see them at the food bank handing out free food. They're not at the community health fairs either, donating their time, knowledge, and experience. They're not giving a portion of their paycheck every week to the United Way. It seems they're only generous and real champions of the poor when someone else pays for it!

    Despite having well over 1/2 of my income being stolen in taxes, I still donate to charity, volunteer, and contribute selflessly to the "greater good." Maybe if we didn't force people to "pay if forward" they would do it on their own, and MUCH more effectively. Let's not forget it wasn't that long ago that almost all hospitals and nursing homes were run by charity. No one ever got turned away and we had the highest standard of care in the world. It seems to me that the direction we are going with government managed care is not the right one.
    Last edit by realmaninuniform on Oct 17, '12
  7. 1
    If you don't want to pay taxes at all, well good luck with that. If it were up to me, I would prefer to take the taxes we already pay and instead of using all of that money to buy more "uniforms" we don't need, use it for healthcare for our citizens.
    VanLpn likes this.
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    Quote from JMBnurse
    If you don't want to pay taxes at all, well good luck with that. If it were up to me, I would prefer to take the taxes we already pay and instead of using all of that money to buy more "uniforms" we don't need, use it for healthcare for our citizens.
    I agree with you that not paying taxes is a "pipe dream". However I don't think we need to sit back and let Wash DC continue down the path they're on. Taxes on the Federal level needs to be interstate needs.(Defense from foreign and domestic enemies, infrastructure like, railroads, roads, dams, etc. and other federal issues). Taxes that affect a single group of people like schools, healthcare possibly (if the people see it as a need that they consider a priority), etc need to be at a local/county/state level. We have it backwards, I would much rather pay the same amount of taxes but with the bulk going to my state level to run the services that my state needs to take care of our sovereign state. It is a whole lot easier to fix a problem starting at the hub of a circle--where you appear to be standing still and the outer area is spinning with chaos. One easy way to see the advantage is just follow your tax dollars. You work for it, the employer has to figure your pay and then your taxes. Then your taxes get sent to Washington, Washington has a HUGE department to decipher and distribute the taxes to other departments. These departments then distribute it back to your state, who then takes your tax dollars and redistributes it back to your community. Each step money is lost thru the cracks (bureaucracy at it's finest). Just my 2 cents!
    realmaninuniform, CountyRat, and cdsga like this.
  9. 4
    Quote from rntj
    This thread sure makes me glad I am NOT a conservative.
    This thread also makes me appreciate being Canadian, and thankful for my health care.
    Sisyphus, VanLpn, JMBnurse, and 1 other like this.
  10. 3
    Quote from joanna73
    This thread also makes me appreciate being Canadian, and thankful for my health care.
    Me too. It baffles me that people wouldn't want a universal healthcare system. This discussion has also highlighted to me how individualistic the U.S as a whole is with an "every man for himself" kind of philosophy. I am very grateful that Canadians want everyone to have equal access to health care and for no one to go bankrupt over an illness. It's not a perfect system to be sure but I'm glad to have it.
    joanna73, lindarn, and JMBnurse like this.


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