Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 47

by Asystole RN

46,770 Unique Views | 622 Comments

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from RNfaster
    Hmm...I'd like to see some statistics on that... I would have thought the greatest expenses would be for cardiac surgeries, transplant surgeries, chemotherapeutic drugs, and such. Many of those things give folks quite a bit more time. Maybe you are including those things in the definition of "end of life care"? I would think hospice/palliative care would not be as expensive as the other items.... I could see it being a great expense for some folks who have not been sick much....as hospice towards end of life would require more intense monitoring to ensure the patient is comfortable.
    End of life healthcare costs:

    The Cost of Dying: End-of-Life Care - CBS News

    Medicare Beneficiaries’ Costs Of Care In The Last Year Of Life (slightly older data)

    https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...ds/issue10.pdf

    http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wo...ly-disappoint/
  2. 3
    This thread sure makes me glad I am NOT a conservative.
    joanna73, JMBnurse, and malamud69 like this.
  3. 0
    Hospice care is cheaper than the end of life care the articles speak of. The care they refer to is when people continue aggressive care even when faced with a terminal diagnosis.
  4. 0
    Your last source noted that hospice reduces medicare cost significantly for
    end of life care? The other sources were noting hospital and icu cost for end
    of life. I don't get your point?
  5. 0
    When you are talking end of life care you take into effect the percent of cost overall. I would suppose that the least amount of money would be spent on younger people, who are healthier. Of course catastrophic illness/trauma is very expensive but when you take into account vast population spreads-these situations are not as prevalent as elder care who need extensive therapy, continuous care, massive amounts of medication and are not ready for hospice or able to be taken care of at home. This is pretty general knowledge.
  6. 0
    Quote from tntrn
    "So I hardly think hospice care accounts for huge end of life costs. I have no figures to back that up, but he was never seen by an MD and except for nighttimes at the nursing home and meds administered there, my sisters and I did everything. Everything.
    I'm sorry about your father... I am glad you and your sisters were able to be such a comfort to him.

    I would like to learn more about where all the money in healthcare goes... Googled this..
    .
    Medicare Gaps Leave Many With Big Bill at End of Life, Study Finds: MedlinePlus
    EXCERPT: "In the last five years of life, out-of-pocket co-payments and deductibles, and the high cost of home care services, assisted living and long-term nursing home care cause 25 percent of seniors to spend more than their total non-housing assets, the study found.
    "The biggest problem for many families is covering long-term care," said study author Dr. Amy Kelley, an assistant professor of geriatrics and palliative medicine at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine, in New York City.
    ...

    Kelley and her colleagues found that the average out-of-pocket health care spending by households of Medicare recipients in the last five years of life was nearly $39,000. And 10 percent of recipients spent more than $89,000, while 5 percent of recipients spent more than $139,000.
    More than 75 percent of households spent at least $10,000, while 11 percent of single and 9 percent of married households spent more than $100,000.
    The amount of spending varied with the person's illness. Those with Alzheimer's disease or dementia spent the most for health care, averaging about $66,000, more than double that of those with cancer or gastrointestinal disease, who spent about $31,000.
    ...
    "To be 90 percent sure your expenses [at the end of life] will be covered," Mitchell explained, "you would need about $400,000, plus the cost of purchasing Medigap," an insurance policy sold by private insurance companies that supplements Medicare benefits, in an effort to cover the gaps in health care coverage."

    END EXCERPT

    I sure would like to know where all the money goes in long-term care... I worked in long-term care for a period...we were chronically understaffed and under-supplied...we were also in an old decrepit building...and we were underpaid... (at least I was...but it was good to have a job...)

    I keep remembering the purpose of this thread..."is healthcare a human right?" Doesn't it seem that we should have the right to die with healthcare? Doesn't it seem that it's the right thing to do as a society?
  7. 0
    RNFaster-great entry. It's a sobering thought-and I too wonder where the money goes. I know when you put someone in a nursing home-someone has to be made power of attorney and all that person's assets with the exception of house and car are liquidated to be able to go on medicare/medicaid-any savings, investments etc, go to the long term care.

    With the new ACA, even though they say there won't be death panels. I think it will be a matter of time, they may change the name, but the financial issues will prohibit large amounts of money spent on fruitless efforts to extend life. It will be called something like "Quality of life Panel" or something like that to make it sound politically correct and more sensitive, but no longer will they be able to put gobs of money into the terminally ill just so the family can adjust to the reality of their loved ones passing on.

    It makes advance directives and durable power of attorneys so much more important. People don't want to face it-but each of us will have to make that determination one day, the more you discuss it the better everyone has a handle on how their loved one wants to live out their last days/months/years.
  8. 0
    THank you for the articles... I found the CBS story and the "Medicare Benificiaries - Costs of Care in the Last Year of Life" especially compelling. With regard to the CBS item, I think they presented several valid arguments that I better understand now that I have worked in healthcare and seen what I consider excessive interventions....things that end up just decreasing quality of life towards end of life... Here's a quote from the CBS article:

    "Often the best care is saying 'Let's see how you do on this particular treatment for a couple of days. And see if you respond.' Not necessarily doing a lot of tests," Fisher said. "The best care may well be staying home with a trial of a new medication, rather than being admitted to a hospital where you can be exposed to a hospital-acquired infection. We have a system that rewards much, much more care."

    I think we as a society should ensure the dying are cared for....

    In the other article - Medicare Beneficiaries, I was struck by the fact that the poor were disproportionately affected by ESRD (something that significantly escalated costs).... I can't help but wonder if better care and education through their lives might alter those statistics.

    I think it is good for us as a society to take the lead in intervention...and to provide healthcare... I can't help but think it will ultimately lead to lower costs if we are receive better care early on...

    Looks like everyone is waking up and making some posts...
  9. 0
    A lot of times ESRD is purely genetics. But economics and nutritional status and other diseases such as hypertension and diabetes take their toll. It's cheaper to eat processed, high NA, high GLU filled canned foods than buying fresh (not necessarily) organic. When you are at the poverty level-long term shelf items fit the bill as well as filling foods that are not the best for you over the long term.
    So all that plays into the stats.
  10. 2
    Quote from cdsga
    RNFaster-great entry. It's a sobering thought-and I too wonder where the money goes. I know when you put someone in a nursing home-someone has to be made power of attorney and all that person's assets with the exception of house and car are liquidated to be able to go on medicare/medicaid-any savings, investments etc, go to the long term care.

    With the new ACA, even though they say there won't be death panels. I think it will be a matter of time, they may change the name, but the financial issues will prohibit large amounts of money spent on fruitless efforts to extend life. It will be called something like "Quality of life Panel" or something like that to make it sound politically correct and more sensitive, but no longer will they be able to put gobs of money into the terminally ill just so the family can adjust to the reality of their loved ones passing on.

    It makes advance directives and durable power of attorneys so much more important. People don't want to face it-but each of us will have to make that determination one day, the more you discuss it the better everyone has a handle on how their loved one wants to live out their last days/months/years.
    Thank you! I appreciate your thoughts as well!

    I think fear causes people to come up with the term "death panels." After working in healthcare for a period, my views have changed relative to interventions as someone is nearing death. I think excessive interventions are often cruel...and often pressed on by the family (out of ignorance and hope) and/or system. I actually think that "Quality of Life Panel" would be an okay thing... In my current work, I do see doctors broaching the subject of end-of-life care, palliative care...and getting patients to think about things... I see that it often takes many discussions...

    I agree with you on advanced directives, etc.

    If I go back to original thread....healthcare as human right...I believe we have the right to it...and obligation as humans to administer it... I think the notion of "Quality of Life Panels" supports compassionate care... But I guess I could see how some folks could argue against such panels...and that a right had been infringed upon. This is a tough subject.
    malamud69 and cdsga like this.


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