Healthcare is NOT a basic human right.

[Asystole RN]

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the government. A right is something that is inherent to the individual, comes from that individual, and is maintained by the individual. You are born with such rights like the right to speak freely, the only thing that can be done to that right is to have it infringed. No one can grant a right to another, only limit or impede the exercise of that right.

Healthcare is a human invention that does not exist in the natural environment. Only through the work of others and through the taking of resources from one party and giving to another does healthcare exist. You cannot force someone to give effort and resources to another and call that a right. In the absence of human intervention the individual would live their lives and succumb to the natural forces which would act upon their bodies.

Do I think we should provide preventative care and basic primary care? Sure. Do I think that we can? Maybe. Do I think that healthcare is a basic human right? Absolutely not.

[DoGoodThenGo]

Don't know if this has been addressed and am not going to wade though all the posts to find out, *LOL* but there are many parts to the "right to healthcare" in the United States. Most of it has to do with access.

In France physicans attend medical school on the state's dime and are in most cases employees of same. That or there are rules and or laws in place that pretty much mandate whom they will treat and at what rate. OTOH the United States has no such system and that is where the problems start.

There are already plenty of persons who have either "poor" insurance and or are on federal programs (Medicare, Medicaid) who cannot find a physican for love nor money. We're talking about large urban areas including New York City, as well as small towns. The only real leverage the federal government has over healthcare is via funding (again Medicare/Medicaid), so if doctors and or healthcare systems opt out that is the end of that. States OTHO do have more and bigger sticks they can use but that does not always happen.

Indeed just read a news report a few weeks ago that one of the biggest "gains" from Obamacare, the ability to stop insurance companies from raising rates isn't what it's cracked up to be. Turns out neither the federal government nor most states have the power to stop most increases in rates. One government official in California put it bluntly "...they can tell us to go to he**, and there is nothing we can do".

Long as the means of healthcare delivery remains in private (both profit and non-profit) hands access of care in the United States is going to be uneven at best.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

It might be interesting to see what happens in Florida, the governor has boycotted ObamaCare and declined to participate in the Program. He has also been declining other Obama sponsored initiatives and programs since he's been elected. Personally, I think the man is an idiot. I know the man personally from his days as CEO and President of a multi million dollar Health Care Company he ran into bankruptcy and he was under indictment when he was running for governor, but he took the fifth amendment 99 times and skated by, by lying and throwing everyone else under the bus.

[DoGoodThenGo]

It might be interesting to see what happens in Florida, the governor has boycotted ObamaCare and declined to participate in the Program. He has also been declining other Obama sponsored initiatives and programs since he's been elected. Personally, I think the man is an idiot. I know the man personally from his days as CEO and President of a multi million dollar Health Care Company he ran into bankruptcy and he was under indictment when he was running for governor, but he took the fifth amendment 99 times and skated by, by lying and throwing everyone else under the bus.

Govenors of all states and both parties will probably soon find out things are out of their control.

The cuts to federal reimbursement rates are across the board and regardless of state/location of facility. Hospitals in states that are declining to participate in "Obamacare" will find themselves with less revenue but with the same if not increased costs from the under or uninsured. Without the mandated insurance, expanded Medicare/Medicaid there are few if any ways for facilities to get themselves financially "right".

Mark my words, regardless of who wins the election in November, states that are talking big now are going to be sat down by the major healthcare systems in their state and told either stop the maddness or find ways to increase their funding.

[MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN]

The OP states that their belief is that healthcare is not a human right.....

A nurse in her early 50's has been injured repeatedly during her career. One day she cannot more.....it is found that she multiple disc injuries which will not allow her to work in her field at the bedside any longer. This nurse has more than 20 years experience in Emergency medicine, but has a Diploma; therefore she is not "qualified" for any other nursing position.

She uses up her time, but can't come back to work.

She can't afford COBRA.

She isn't old enough for Medicare.

She's using a walker.

Is it a human right for her? The person that helped so many others......No one ever thinks of those stuck in the middle. There but for the Grace of GOD.....to those who think healthcare is not a right!

So many areas are cited when discussing healthcare for all; however I see only one. If GOD (or whatever name you use) provided man with the knowledge to heal. IT is our obligation share this knowledge with the masses, it is also our obligation to share the knowledge of prevention, maintenance, and end of life decision making with the masses.

We cannot and should not keep everyone alive. There are many things I do not agree with in the healthcare technology available (especially at end of life and long term vented patients) ; however providing quality services as a country is the bare minimum that the America I believe in should be doing.

Maisy

[Harmony2]

Concerning Canada, "Thecountry has little reason to worry about illegal immigration. The UnitedStates shares a long southern border with a country suffering from highlevels of crime, unemployment and income inequality. But there aren't millionsof Americans yearning to get into Canada. To put it another way, the United States'buffer zone from the eager masses is a shallow river. Canada's is the UnitedStates. That reduces unauthorized migration to Canada and eases public anxietyabout it. Canada also has a smaller population and lower birth rate than theUnited States--it needs immigrants for population growth."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/05/immigration

50 % ofCanadian immigrants arrive with a Bachelor's degree. Providing health care for another countriescitizen is very controversial especially, when people in our own backyard aresuffering. Although Canada's situationis admirable, it is also unique to Canada and not most other countries.

[BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN]

Thank you, Dogoodthengo, for taking the time to improve my understanding of the French health care system. I was under the misimpression that it was considered socialized medicine. While I do not think socialized medicine is a pejorative, I wish we could adopt their system.

I saw a woman today begging me for help. She has insurance. She also has a very large, widely differentiated tumor on her cervical lymph node, (nonlymphoma) adjacent to, and being fed by, her carotid artery. It grew from 4.5 to 11cm in less than 8 weeks. It will kill her very shortly. They only surgeon around who is skilled enough to to the surgery does not take Blue Cross/Blue Shield. The surgeons who do take BCBS have refused to do the surgery because of it's complexity. She and her husband cannot afford to pay out of network. Therefore, she will just die. All I can do for her is prescribe for pain and nausea. Too bad, so sad for her. AND SHE IS INSURED! It is an outrage.

She is 47. Will never see 48. At this rate she won't see Christmas. And some of you think this is moral and just. Sleep well. heh.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

Thank you, Dogoodthengo, for taking the time to improve my understanding of the French health care system. I was under the misimpression that it was considered socialized medicine. While I do not think socialized medicine is a pejorative, I wish we could adopt their system.

I saw a woman today begging me for help. She has insurance. She also has a very large, widely differentiated tumor on her cervical lymph node, (nonlymphoma) adjacent to, and being fed by, her carotid artery. It grew from 4.5 to 11cm in less than 8 weeks. It will kill her very shortly. They only surgeon around who is skilled enough to to the surgery does not take Blue Cross/Blue Shield. The surgeons who do take BCBS have refused to do the surgery because of it's complexity. She and her husband cannot afford to pay out of network. Therefore, she will just die. All I can do for her is prescribe for pain and nausea. Too bad, so sad for her. AND SHE IS INSURED! It is an outrage.

She is 47. Will never see 48. At this rate she won't see Christmas. And some of you think this is moral and just. Sleep well. heh.

Well BlueDevil, it is Mercifully a very rapidly growing tumor. Sometimes that is the very best we can hope for. That, and a good pain control practitioner.

[Fiona59]

Bangs head against desk.

[realmaninuniform]

"A free clinic? Twice a week! Well there's no problem at all with access!!

Every free clinic around here you'd have to wait all day HOPING you'll be seen. Which is really easy to do if you're trying to keep a roof over your head with your job that pays just enough to get by, as long as you keep it. Or your child gets sick on Thursday night. Free clinic isn't open until next Tuesday night. Think we're going to be wasting ER resources for a simple case of otitis media? And then how do you pay that bill?

I can't afford a surprise ED visit, and I've got a decent job and insurance that will pay some of it.

As I said before I live in a small town, the two day a week free clinic is more than enough to satisfy the demand here. Most of the time they don't even run a full day, because they don't have that many pts. As for larger cities, sure there is a much higher demand, but their is also much more access. From multiple full time free clinics, to urgent care centers, to multiple hospitals, many more physicians, etc. You're going to have to excuse me for not buying into the whole "poor people dying in the streets because they have absolutely no where to go."

As for the whole "It never ceases to amaze me how easy people who have never been poor think that it is to be poor." First, you do not know me. How do you know if I grew up poor and rose up out of poverty? Sure, I never went hungry, but in all honesty with the millions of Americans on food stamps, WIC, food banks, school lunches, etc. who really does? I didn't have all the designer clothes, the cool shoes, and later the cool car, the latest cell phone, etc. What I did have in my later years in high school I provided for myself because I worked 7 days a week part-time. At this time I was also buying my own school lunches , insurance, gas, etc. all while playing sports and being an honor roll student. It really infuriated me seeing some of my friends parents buy everything for them - sports cars, cool clothes, ipods, etc. It also infuriated me seeing their parents foot the bill for them when they went to college, when I worked my way through college and paid it myself. Not that my parent's didn't want to, but rather couldn't help me out as much as I helped myself.

You'll have to excuse me for not being overly sympathetic the "poor". "Poor" being a widely misused term in this country. The majority of the so-called "poor" in the US have no idea what it is like to actually be poor. They are not starving in the streets, rather, their food card is so abundant, they can sell portions of their allotment for 50 cents on the dollar in exchange for cash and still have a balance left over. Their rent is often either paid for or subsidized. Most enjoy the luxuries of cable tv, internet, and air conditioning as well. Let's not forget the latest smart phone either. Or the designer clothes, or manicured nails, and salon styled hair. And of course, Medicaid. The standard of living for the poor continues to increase. Meanwhile the average joe out there is seeing at least 1/3 of his payroll stolen in payroll taxes alone.Then along comes sales, property, highway, state, local, county, and excise taxes to gnaw away at the left-overs. His standard of living, despite working harder, continues to decline. Anyone else see something WRONG with this picture? It's very simple basic economics, you cannot subsidize one persons standard of living while lowering another's and expect it to all balance out. It just doesn't work.

Oh and P.S. it's not that I hate poor people or anything of the such, which I'm sure alot of the libs on this thread are going to say. Strange though I never see them volunteering at the food bank, the local churches, the charitable events, etc, despite claiming to care so much about people... I guess they only really care when it directly benefits them, or someone else puts in the time, money and effort...

[Susie2310]

Thank you, Dogoodthengo, for taking the time to improve my understanding of the French health care system. I was under the misimpression that it was considered socialized medicine. While I do not think socialized medicine is a pejorative, I wish we could adopt their system.

I saw a woman today begging me for help. She has insurance. She also has a very large, widely differentiated tumor on her cervical lymph node, (nonlymphoma) adjacent to, and being fed by, her carotid artery. It grew from 4.5 to 11cm in less than 8 weeks. It will kill her very shortly. They only surgeon around who is skilled enough to to the surgery does not take Blue Cross/Blue Shield. The surgeons who do take BCBS have refused to do the surgery because of it's complexity. She and her husband cannot afford to pay out of network. Therefore, she will just die. All I can do for her is prescribe for pain and nausea. Too bad, so sad for her. AND SHE IS INSURED! It is an outrage.

She is 47. Will never see 48. At this rate she won't see Christmas. And some of you think this is moral and just. Sleep well. heh.

BlueDevil, maybe this has already been considered, but I have read of people who needed expensive highly skilled surgeries eg. for brain tumors, who had no money to pay. Friends set up a web site explaining the person's plight and requesting donations, and raised the money necessary through PUBLIC DONATIONS. It can be done. I understand your patient needs the money now, but perhaps the right person could make this happen very quickly. If one was desperate for funds and didn't have a friend who could design a web site, perhaps it would be possible to find someone who would accept a payment plan for the web site.

I have also read of organizations (charities) who raise money for people in these kind of situations through web campaigns. Web campaigns can be very effective in raising money for medical causes.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

Well BlueDevil, it is Mercifully a very rapidly growing tumor. Sometimes that is the very best we can hope for. That, and a good pain control practitioner.

I'm not in the habit of replying to my own post, but I thought perhaps this one was a bit different because it appears a little callous on my part and I thought maybe it could use an explanation. I am perhaps a little more rough around the edges than the average Nurse, but that comes from being ex-military, combat duty and being a good bit older, or as some on the board refer to it as "more seasoned," than a number of the other bloggers here. It is my experience that sometimes death is not the worst thing that can happen to us. Having experienced it myself, twice, it isn't something I personally fear any longer and when it comes time for me to go, I will welcome the chance to leave the chains of the burdens of life behind willingly and go eagerly on to my just reward. I am a Cancer survivor and know that sometimes those battles are best fought with a full orificenal or left alone while I make my peace with my maker and fight the pain with the best I can get.

[DoGoodThenGo]

BlueDevil, maybe this has already been considered, but I have read of people who needed expensive highly skilled surgeries eg. for brain tumors, who had no money to pay. Friends set up a web site explaining the person's plight and requesting donations, and raised the money necessary through PUBLIC DONATIONS. It can be done. I understand your patient needs the money now, but perhaps the right person could make this happen very quickly. If one was desperate for funds and didn't have a friend who could design a web site, perhaps it would be possible to find someone who would accept a payment plan for the web site.

I have also read of organizations (charities) who raise money for people in these kind of situations through web campaigns. Web campaigns can be very effective in raising money for medical causes.

Forget the name of the Website, but the one used to raise nearly one million dollars for the NYS school bus matron that was bullied by her young students seems to do well.