Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 21

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from... Read More

  1. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    4
    Quote from malamud69
    So what of the way this country was founded...were we not all "illegal" immigrants at some point? How do you define "legal"/"illegal" all vague, societal contracts anyway. We need more post-conventional thinking in this world not less! Why are you so selectively forgetful? Not to mention the slaughter of so many native people...was it not also there right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Or do only "we" (actually you) have these desires/rights/ (whatever configuration we are using now...)What do you suppose we do now...send them all back? And then what? How do we test(uniformly mind you...we must be "fair") who is a "real" American and who is not. Wow...it could be worse than the "death panels" this line of thought always seems to gravitate toward. Sounds vaguely/if not directly like the rhetoric of so many "supremacists" who want to send so many "back to Africa." I imagine with groups like FAIR and people like J. Tanton, you are bound to see things in a way that discounts the fact that the world is no longer flat...
    I was born here. Those who came before me, who are now dead, who are not related to me, are no concern of mine. I did not kill anyone. My family did not kill anyone. All those who committed those acts are long dead.

    I believe the reference to illegal immigrant is to those who violate federal law and enter the country illegally or violate their legally given immigrant status.

    EDIT:

    In case you are curious, my mother immigrated here LEGALLY. My great grandparents on my father's side immigrated here legally.
    mc3, joanna73, Fiona59, and 1 other like this.
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  3. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    1
    Quote from benm93
    i love people who say we should deport immigrants, i doubt they would enjoy doing to jobs that many immigrants must do to make ends meet. Once you have to go clean a business from 2-6 am, then cook/clean for some rich person in their house all day, then get home in time to put your kids to bed, then sleep for 3 hours. (i have multiple immigrant friends who must do this). When it comes down to it, it is a hard life, and we need to help people who come to our country for a better life.
    From what I hear there is a recession and jobs are hard to come by.
    lindarn likes this.
  4. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    3
    Quote from malamud69
    Yes yes!!! Just look what happened in Georgia when they tried to pull this B.S...people(yes they are people) LEFT IN DROVES! Not a few months later we got to hear all the farmers whining and complaining that the crops were not harvested etc...etc...It serves them right. It is the same idea that the southern supremacists want...sure their economy was booming as long as they had the slaves to do the "dirty" work!
    To compare the immigration issue to southern supremacy and slavery is silly and insulting. You are attempting to skew the debate by throwing out terms that will slander anyone who attempts to debate you.

    Please use logic, not pejorative terms.
    mc3, lindarn, and Spidey's mom like this.
  5. Visit  toekneejo profile page
    2
    In addition, how humanitarian is it to acknowledge and encourage underpayment to a group of people? I also believe that it may take awhile however if the jobs that are being filled by non-residents were to be vacated due to them going home Americans who are not counted in the unemployment figures ( due to they have stopped looking), would fill them thus putting more Americans to work.
    mc3 and lindarn like this.
  6. Visit  uRNmyway profile page
    3
    Quote from malamud69
    So what of the way this country was founded...were we not all "illegal" immigrants at some point? How do you define "legal"/"illegal" all vague, societal contracts anyway. We need more post-conventional thinking in this world not less! Why are you so selectively forgetful? Not to mention the slaughter of so many native people...was it not also there right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Or do only "we" (actually you) have these desires/rights/ (whatever configuration we are using now...)What do you suppose we do now...send them all back? And then what? How do we test(uniformly mind you...we must be "fair") who is a "real" American and who is not. Wow...it could be worse than the "death panels" this line of thought always seems to gravitate toward. Sounds vaguely/if not directly like the rhetoric of so many "supremacists" who want to send so many "back to Africa." I imagine with groups like FAIR and people like J. Tanton, you are bound to see things in a way that discounts the fact that the world is no longer flat...
    Ok, well for one, this conversation isnt about illegal immigration. Second, the fact that we were COLONISTS at one point, not illegal immigrants, is besides the point. There was no concept of citizenship among Native Americans, no concept of land ownership. And do you want to know how we define this crazy thing called illegal or legal citizens? Its simple. Either a birth certificate saying you were born here, or naturalization documents, or any legal document from USCIS saying you are legally allowed to be here and work. If you want to talk about how in this day and age we take care of others, you should also realize that in this day and age, you need to LEGALLY immigrate. Because while citizenship to a certain land might be a social construct, so is healthcare for all.
    As for the slaughter of Natives. Yes, there was slaughter. It went both ways. But how many conquering people do you know who give the conquered land, benefits, tax exemptions, and apologize every chance they get?
    And to your hilarious comment about how we would test to see who is a real American or not, or who is allowed to be here, please refer to my above explanations. If you are a citizen, or have a work visa, or are a permanent resident, then you dont have to leave. Simple.
    mc3, joanna73, and lindarn like this.
  7. Visit  uRNmyway profile page
    1
    Right, and the whole argument that illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans wouldnt do. That is preposterous. Maybe they dont want to do them at the current salaries. But if you have no other options, you increase salary to minimum wage. And lets remember America is currently experiencing a recession with skyhigh unemployment rates. I think assuming that Americans wouldnt do the work is silly. First, we wont know until we try. Second, when you are desperate to feed your family and unemployed, you take what you can get (unless of course the government throws out a bunch of handouts so you dont have to work).
    lindarn likes this.
  8. Visit  RockinChick66 profile page
    0
    Maslow's says it all. Basic human needs (or rights).
  9. Visit  uRNmyway profile page
    1
    Quote from RockinChick66
    Maslow's says it all. Basic human needs (or rights).
    Nope, needs and rights are not the same thing. Try again.
    RockinChick66 likes this.
  10. Visit  RockinChick66 profile page
    2
    Quote from Jeweles26
    Nope, needs and rights are not the same thing. Try again.
    Ok. Let me say this.....I need insurance and I believe I have the right to have it! If members of congress have the right to all that great health insurance they get, than why shouldn't I have that same right? Are they better than me?
    Fiona59 and lindarn like this.
  11. Visit  cdsga profile page
    1
    The pursuit of happiness is in the Declaration of Independence. That aside-the pursuit of happiness for some, is to be left alone, not have insurance and to not take care of themselves. So that premise is individual not collective. You have the right to decide. You are a free moral agent. And with that, you take on the consequences of your actions.

    I don't know of any healthcare provider who asks for immigration papers. If they come in with a "self-pay" designation we know that they don't have insurance. We still see patients with health issues that and we do the best we can for them. There are many charitable free clinics in cities and rural areas who see people on a daily basis with donated medications, supplies, volunteer nurse doctors pharmacists and dentists who dole out free care.

    I know many people who immigrate legally to this country-go through the legit channels to become a citizen of this country. It takes time. But I daresay any other country would allow this illegal situation happen. We'd have to show our visa, papers etc, at a moment's notice and wouldn't be caught without them due to harsh immigration and deportation laws in these countries. The outcry is astounding. The law in the US is very clear. If you are here illegally-then you should be deported. You knew you entered the country outside the law and are living on borrowed time.

    For those who "must" clean houses then cook for "rich" people, I have a problem with that. They don't have to do it.
    lindarn likes this.
  12. Visit  wooh profile page
    2
    Quote from toekneejo
    In addition, how humanitarian is it to acknowledge and encourage underpayment to a group of people? I also believe that it may take awhile however if the jobs that are being filled by non-residents were to be vacated due to them going home Americans who are not counted in the unemployment figures ( due to they have stopped looking), would fill them thus putting more Americans to work.
    And guess how much you're going to be paying for chicken. And vegetables. Sure, we can employee "Americans" to pick our fields, but since they work at about a 1/3 to 1/2 as fast as the guys that were doing it, We'll be paying that much more for our vegetables. Imagine how much beef is going to cost now that there are people reporting their accidents in the slaughterhouses to OSHA instead of quietly taking their now single-armed spanish speaking body home. Got to pay for a new arm if you can't threaten them with INS so they'll keep quiet and disappear.

    Quote from Jeweles26
    Right, and the whole argument that illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans wouldnt do. That is preposterous. Maybe they dont want to do them at the current salaries. But if you have no other options, you increase salary to minimum wage. And lets remember America is currently experiencing a recession with skyhigh unemployment rates. I think assuming that Americans wouldnt do the work is silly. First, we wont know until we try. Second, when you are desperate to feed your family and unemployed, you take what you can get (unless of course the government throws out a bunch of handouts so you dont have to work).
    It really is preposterous, and I have a solution. A Canadian could go back to where they came from and open up that nursing job for one of our many out of work nurses here. I'm sure they'd rather work instead of getting a bunch of government handouts. But as long as we allow foreign nurses into this country, we're stuck putting unemployed nurses on welfare and food stamps, and WIC and all sorts of government handouts. There's a border that I can get behind shutting down. Canadians aren't offering low cost labor like people from the southern border offer. So Canadians are ONLY taking away jobs that Americans do want to fill. Like the many nursing graduates and experienced nurses looking for work.
    If only we could find one Canadian that took a nursing job in the U.S.A. That's one nursing job that could then be opened up to a true born in the good ol' U.S.ofA. Where to look? WHERE TO LOOK????
    Fiona59 and JMBnurse like this.
  13. Visit  wooh profile page
    3
    And don't fret. I'm coming after Bieber and the Titanic soundtrack lady next! Just watch any signing competition, sooooo many americans that want the jobs those Canadians have.

    I figure once we get that border conquered, we can then start working on the southern border. There's a reason for building a north wall first. We'll need cheap labor for that. So we can't wall off the south before we get the walls in place.

    Any suggestions on how high the walls should be? And how fast should I hit the border a few times to bring down some Canadian beer?
    I promise not to bring a foreign kid who might lose his visa across the border with me.
    JMBnurse, malamud69, and rubato like this.
  14. Visit  realmaninuniform profile page
    0
    This is to 37 degrees -

    No it is not irrelevant, whether you are or in your case NOT a nurse. This is a site and a thread for NURSES. You are clearly not one.

    Did anyone else just hear that? It was 37 degrees' credibility going down the drain....

    We deal with the sick, the injured, the young, the dieing, 24/7... What do you do? Haunt internet chat boards attempting to prove something which has already been debunked time and time again? All in the name of "research"?

    Take your propaganda somewhere else comrade. It's not welcome here in the land of the free, and home of the brave!


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