Is health care a "right" - page 5

by tulip5 | 5,961 Views | 82 Comments

Now that the affordable care act is rolling out I wonder if we should revisit this notion. AND (maybe more particularly) if it is a right, is the federal government the best instrument to provide it.... Read More


  1. 4
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** YOU recieve fantastic benifits from living in a healthy society. YOU should help pay for the benifits your and your family recieve.
    Thank you for that response...I am getting weary of the "only out for myself" mentality that is creeping into the center or our civil dialog.
  2. 5
    Quote from tewdles
    Thank you for that response...I am getting weary of the "only out for myself" mentality that is creeping into the center or our civil dialog.
    I absolutely agree with this sentiment.

    I've seen opinions on the subject of healthcare that have surprised and saddened me, especially considering that this is a nursing forum. Call me naive, but to me it's unthinkable that a healthcare worker who has experienced first-hand what accidents and disease can do to a person and their loved ones can be against healthcare being accessible to all people.

    I just realized that I haven't really commented on this threads main question, is healthcare a right?
    Well, I believe that it is. The possibility to successfully live a quality life and "pursue happiness" is pretty remote if your health is severely compromised.

    In my country, the right to healthcare is guarranteed by law.

    The legal text is miles long but the first few paragraphs are roughly (due to my non-perfect translation skills) as follows:

    "The aim for healthcare is good health and access to healthcare for the entire population on equal terms. Healthcare should be given with respect and consideration to all human beings equal value and the dignity of the individual person.
    Healthcare should be of high quality and provided with good hygienic standards and meet the patient's need for security and safety.
    Healthcare should be easily accessible.
    Healthcare should be based on respect of the patient's autonomy and integrity.
    Healthcare should fullfill the patient's need for continuity of care."

    There's lots more, but this conveys the general intention of the law.
    NRSKarenRN, liebling5, tewdles, and 2 others like this.
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    To me the question is not so much whether or not healthcare is a right. Depends how you define right. We have a serious problem in this country because healthcare is a business. Nurses probably suffer the most because of this, they are often under payed over worked and can be accused by disgruntled patients for simply doing their job.
    The first job I had as an aide was a for profit rehab. I was shocked how much emphasis was placed in delivering excellent costumer service as opposed to excellent care. To me the focus of healthcare should be healthcare and nurses and aides are not waitresses. Nurses have doctors orders to carry out and aides have nurses orders.
    This supposedly customer service oriented facility put one aide to 14 plus total care patients and one lpn to twice that many. (That was if we were fully staffed which almost never happened) Yet we were supposed to greet family members with a cheery smile because our job was deliver excellent costumer service.
    I saw things to on in that place that I can't bare to mention.
    I could go on and on pharmaceutical companies running all drug research. Lobbyists. Doctors being forced by the board of directors to over prescribe surgeries or admit more patients.
    Are books a right? No one thinks twice about public libraries and we all benefit from them and no one who borrows books is ever accused of leaching off the system.
    It's no secret that government jobs are well paid jobs and nurses wouldn't likely have a win win if healthcare washer like the library or postal system.
    One last thing, before we accuse the poor of this country lets look at the huge amounts of corporate welfare and tax breaks the rich enjoy. Why is that not considered leaching?
    We are in just as much danger if not more of losing our freedom to these corporations.
    So is healthcare a right? Is education? A postal system? A fire and rescue squad in each town? Or a police force? Perhaps none of these things are yet I am not ready to give them up.
    macawake, sneeds, NRSKarenRN, and 3 others like this.
  4. 0
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** YOU recieve fantastic benifits from living in a healthy society. YOU should help pay for the benifits your and your family recieve.
    I do pay for the benifits my family and I receive, I pay taxes, I pay insurance. What am I not paying for?
  5. 0
    Quote from macawake
    (The "bold" is mine).

    How exactly will a free market with no government "interference" provide all citizens with healthcare? If it won't, it it acceptable that some people have to do without healthcare?
    I don't think that it's always a question of what the individual is willing to pay for a service, in some cases it's what they are able to pay.

    How many products or services are priced in a way that 100% of the population can afford them?
    Maximizing profits does't mean making a product affordable for everyone. If you price your product according to what the person who can afford the least can pay, your company will earn a lot less than it could. A company that wants to stay viable won't adopt that strategy and that's the reason I don't think that healthcare should ever be left to the "free market".

    You say that charities should provide for the less fortunate, not government. I strongly disagree.

    I've never felt that I'm being forced to pay for someone else when I pay taxes. I pay taxes for many things; healthcare, public transportation, infrastructure, the school system, daycare, fire/rescue/police and lots of other things. I benefit from some of them directly but all of them indirectly in the sense that I live in a safe, clean, healthy and humane society.
    I guess I was trying to say that a large part of the problem with health care is that government is too involved. Also, it's true that there will always be people who can not afford to pay for healthcare, this is where charity comes in. The problem with forcing me to pay for someone elses healthcare is that I don't believe the government manages money well, if I get to keep more of my income then I can choose how best to spend it and give it to the charity of my choice. I can give to a charity that reflects my basic values and uses it's resources wisely rather than giving it to the government.
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    People need to learn to stop depending on and expecting the government to provide everything for them. I don't know who said it but a government who can give you everything you want can just as easily take it all away. This country is about freedom, freedom to succeed or fail, those who succeed have a moral obligation to help out those who don't. I said a moral obligation, not some arbitrary government imposed requirement, that's not governments responsibility.
    Last edit by shermrn on Jul 4, '13 : Reason: not a good speller, product of government schools, ha
  7. 0
    duplicate post
    Last edit by shermrn on Jul 4, '13 : Reason: duplicate post
  8. 2
    Quote from shermrn
    I guess I was trying to say that a large part of the problem with health care is that government is too involved. Also, it's true that there will always be people who can not afford to pay for healthcare, this is where charity comes in. The problem with forcing me to pay for someone elses healthcare is that I don't believe the government manages money well, if I get to keep more of my income then I can choose how best to spend it and give it to the charity of my choice. I can give to a charity that reflects my basic values and uses it's resources wisely rather than giving it to the government.
    You are already paying for the cost of the uninsured...you are just doing it in the most expensive way possible.

    We have had government out of our health care, it has been run by capitalists.

    As a result we have the worst health outcomes at the highest cost in the world with millions uninsured and millions more under-insured. Too many middle class people are forced into bankrupcy every year due to medical bills.

    Our free market health system now costs us a significant portion of our GDP...you pay for it in that respect too. Before recommending we return to the failures of the past, perhaps you could consider improving things for the people of the country rather than the corporations.

    I would much rather pay federal taxes to insure that my fellow citizens are healthy than to pay federal taxes to insure that corporations get their entitlements and record profits.

    It is the government's job to protect the people...not the church.
    macawake and NRSKarenRN like this.
  9. 1
    No, it's not a right. How can you possibly have a right to anything that somebody else has to provide for you? The only true right is the right to be left alone and allowed to exist, and if fact, by guaranteeing healthcare to everyone regardless of ability to pay, we are actually infringing upon the rights of those who do have to pay for it. But that's okay, because by living in a society we voluntarilty choose (both by our vote and by our power to simply leave the community if we choose) to allow some of our rights to be infringed upon in exchange for mutually assured security. And healthcare is good for society, and those with more resources should be required to help provide it for those who legitimately cannot provide it for themselves. But lets not mince words and muddle definitions. It isn't a right.

    To those who say it's inhumane to withhold healthcare. Fair enough. It's definitely cruel to turn away someone at the ER who is bleeding to death from a gunshot wound. But what if there are twenty gunshot victims, and one nurse or doctor. Is it inhumane to turn them away? Is it infringing upon their rights to be unable to help them all? How do you reconcile their "right" to care with the reality that there are insufficient resources to provide it? The answer is that it is not, and cannot be a right, because it requires the time and resources of another. Hopefully we will always live in a society where resources outstrip need, but if for some reason that's not the case, we'll have some hard decisions to make and we owe it to ourselves to be clear and logical when debating these issues. If we start calling healthcare a right, yet we find ourselves in situations where we cannot ensure this "right" to every citizen, what about my right to not be raped, robbed or murdered? Are those in jeopardy too? Let's please not mince words.
    PMFB-RN likes this.
  10. 0
    Quote from tewdles
    You are already paying for the cost of the uninsured...you are just doing it in the most expensive way possible.

    We have had government out of our health care, it has been run by capitalists.

    As a result we have the worst health outcomes at the highest cost in the world with millions uninsured and millions more under-insured. Too many middle class people are forced into bankrupcy every year due to medical bills.

    Our free market health system now costs us a significant portion of our GDP...you pay for it in that respect too. Before recommending we return to the failures of the past, perhaps you could consider improving things for the people of the country rather than the corporations.

    I would much rather pay federal taxes to insure that my fellow citizens are healthy than to pay federal taxes to insure that corporations get their entitlements and record profits.

    It is the government's job to protect the people...not the church.
    Twedles, we do not have a free market health care system as it stands, remember medicare. So it is not fair or accurate to state that we have a free market health care system. One could argue that medicare (government invovlement) is part of the problem.

    Also, yes it is the governments job to protect people but not to provide for their every need. I do believe it is the responsibility of the church or other charities to provide for the poor, this allows people to have the choice to give, not forces them. Caring for others should be a strictly moral choice, not a legally imposed requirement. Liberals seem to like choice when it comes to the life and death of the unborn but not when it comes to the choice of how to spend money. Truly this is evidence of the moral bankruptcy of the left and American majority.


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