Governor Dean changes his mind and his views...

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Specializes in cardiac, diabetes, OB/GYN.

i am no dean fan...he changes his mind and position more often than i change my clothes...i still have no idea who i will vote for, but as an independent, i certainly peruse the views of all.....here is a letter written by dean concerning bosnia...just insert iraq and the same letter applies, then of course....interesting that he is so against things now...i profess no prejudice toward any other candidate but this certainly interested me...guess it has to do with it being a campaign year and his thoughts were to a democratic president..or, perhaps the atrocities committed in iracq were somehow less important than bosnia...in his mind , anyway...

howard dean letter to president clinton

below is the text of howard dean's letter to president clinton on the conflict in bosnia, dated july 19, 1995.

the honorable william j. clinton

president of the united states

the white house

washington, d.c. 20500

dear mr. president:

after long and careful thought, and after several years of watching the gross atrocities committed by the bosnian serbs, i have reluctantly concluded that the efforts of the united nations and nato in bosnia are a complete failure.

i think your policy up to this date has been absolutely correct. we must give, and have given, this policy with our allies and with the united nations every opportunity to work. it is evident, however, that the cost in human lives in allowing this policy to continue is too great. in addition, and perhaps more importantly for the united states, we are now in a position of ignoring, as many did in the 1940s, one of the worst crimes committed in history. if we ignore these behaviors, no matter where they occur, our moral fiber as a people becomes weakened. as the catholic church and others lost credibility during the holocaust for not speaking out, so will the united states lose credibility and our people lose confidence in themselves as moral beings if the united states does not take action.

since it is clearly no longer possible to take action in conjunction with nato and the united nations, i have reluctantly concluded that we must take unilateral action. while i completely agree with you that no ground troops should be committed for other than humanitarian purposes in bosnia, i would ask that you take the following steps in bosnia. first, lift the arms embargo as it applies to the bosnian government. second, enforce a full embargo of the sort that is now in effect in iraq on the bosnian serbs and upon yugoslavia. third, break off diplomatic relations with yugoslavia. fourth, commit american air power to support the bosnian government until the situation is stabilized and the civilian murders and atrocities by the bosnian serbs have been stopped.

i understand the risks of this policy and their implications for the nato alliance and the future success of the united nations. surely, however, as you watch and read about the huge amount of unwarranted human suffering, particularly of children, you would agree that our current course must now be changed.

i urge you to make these changes as soon as possible, and i look forward to supporting your policy fully to the best of my ability.

sincerely,

howard dean, m.d.

governor

/color]

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II'm not a Dean supporter, either, but it's not clear to me what point you're trying to make. What is it that Dean has supposedly changed his mind on in regard to the letter? Is it that he supported taking action against Bosnia but has (consistenly) opposed the war with Iraq? The letter states clearly that he opposes any US troops in Bosnia for other than humanitarian activities. Or is it that he supported unilateral action by the US in Bosnia ("action" being, according to the letter, lifting embargoes, cutting off diplomatic relationships, and providing air support, not invading the country and killing thousands ...) but has opposed the war with Iraq?

Also, do you have any real idea of whether the letter is genuine or not? Where did it come from? All kinds of strange stuff turns up on the internet and often turns out, eventually, to be some sort of trick or hoax.

I'm not trying to flame you; I was just kind of puzzled by your post.

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Specializes in cardiac, diabetes, OB/GYN.

I'm not trying to make any point whatsoever, but it seems to me that the man so called stuanchy against the goings on in Iraq was not at all against bombing and going into Bosnia...That makes him, in my eyes, a flaming hypocrite...It doesn't serve him to support the current goings on because he is campaigning to get elected.....What does he truly feel? I doubt even he knows...

But again, as to your question, I have no interest in proving any point...Just the hypocrisy of at least one candidate...

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Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess that means that you proably haven't changed _your_ position on anything since 1995 ...

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Specializes in cardiac, diabetes, OB/GYN.

Oh how extremely intelligent and insightful of you to attempt to be sarcastic in your extraordinarily "wit."....Hmmm...I may have changed my mind of things such as what to wear and what I enjoy but when it comes to bombing people and the like, I think someone remotely entertaining the idea of running for president should at least stick to one point...And oh, I guess YOU must not mind when people potentially responsible for your country drift in their position..Thanks so much for your minimally sarcastic and "mature" comment...In a war of words, PLEASE take me on.

All one has to do is substitute Iraq for Bosnia here.....Did you have a problem with my telling you I didn't desire to prove a point in my last post or were you feeling the need to dole out sarcastic comments? Touchy like many democrats I am acquainted with who cannot stand to be brought to task for their floating beliefs..

Hey, to each his or her own...Yep, I have changed my mind a few times over the years, but never my principles...Answer the question for ya????How about you? FOR death and destruction one year and against the next? Perhaps YOU should vote for him....You're right up his alley.....I think the way you asked your last question was an attempt to be sarcastic....Keep trying....We're dangerously close to the flames here....

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read his letter and see he picks and chooses his principles....

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Specializes in Community Health Nurse.

As an avid Republican, if I don't choose Bush again as president, my vote is going to Senator John Kerry so far. I just filled out this questionnaire on CNN to match up my ideas with the best running candidate in spite of their political party, and Senator Kerry came out on top matching my ideas 100%. The second candidate to match my political ideas was Gephardt at 96%. Very interesting indeed.........never thought I could agree with a democrat on much, but this election year is crucial to the recovery and ongoing freedom of our country, so I'm laying my past political choices aside, and measuring my decisions based on what each candidate is presenting on the table compared to what my beliefs today are. Of course, I'm keeping a daily eye on all the candidates in case they never cease to amaze me with changes. :)

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Originally posted by mother/babyRN

I'm not trying to make any point whatsoever, but it seems to me that the man so called stuanchy against the goings on in Iraq was not at all against bombing and going into Bosnia...That makes him, in my eyes, a flaming hypocrite...It doesn't serve him to support the current goings on because he is campaigning to get elected.....What does he truly feel? I doubt even he knows...

But again, as to your question, I have no interest in proving any point...Just the hypocrisy of at least one candidate...

Although many conservatives have tried to say the same thing, Bosnia is not the same as Iraq. It just isn't. Clinton never advocated an invasion and occupation along the same scale as Iraq. We went in with allies, bombed a bit, left peacekeepers and shared the burden with the international community. Not the case with Iraq unfortunately.

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Specializes in cardiac, diabetes, OB/GYN.

Well, they say it is never a good idea to "discuss" either religion or politics....Now I can see why..I'm done with this foolishness, but I am glad that Dean is soon to be passed by someone else, although as a whole, I think on both sides we are in a heap of trouble...Thats it for me...But I don't stand down on anything I said earlier......

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Originally posted by cheerfuldoer

As an avid Republican, if I don't choose Bush again as president, my vote is going to Senator John Kerry so far. I just filled out this questionnaire on CNN to match up my ideas with the best running candidate in spite of their political party, and Senator Kerry came out on top matching my ideas 100%. The second candidate to match my political ideas was Gephardt at 96%. Very interesting indeed.........never thought I could agree with a democrat on much, but this election year is crucial to the recovery and ongoing freedom of our country, so I'm laying my past political choices aside, and measuring my decisions based on what each candidate is presenting on the table compared to what my beliefs today are. Of course, I'm keeping a daily eye on all the candidates in case they never cease to amaze me with changes. :)

Renee, Senator Kerry is very supportive of nurses and nursing unions, he and Ted Kennedy got involved in resolving a strike a few years ago with a Mass Hospital and Tenet. I met him briefly while doing volunteer work renovating a shelter, so I'm biased:). I hope if he becomes president, he'll continue to support nurses and labour. I trust him over Dean, because even though Dean talks a good game about support nurses, labour, etc, he's still a doctor (MUUUURAWWWWW:devil: ) and I really think he's going to support his physician colleagues and hospitals before he will the common labour force. But, it's still too early to tell....

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Specializes in Community Health Nurse.

Gldngrl....that's really nice to know! :) I agree with you about Dr. Dean. I do not believe he will support nurses either. Of course, EVERY politician will say what groups of people want to hear just to get their vote, but when I watched Kerry talking to the people in Iowa the other night, I felt like he was right in the living room with me.........a very down to earth kind of guy. He seemed to be a true lover of people and their concerns. He came across like a man who can represent those of us who are not at the top of the payscale. He seemed to me to be honest and forthright with his answers. I'll be watching him closely since he may get my vote this election year. :)

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A lot of people think Kerry is too reserved and aloof, but I think that's just him, also a part of New England too (not to stereotype, but I and many of my N.E. friends are the same way, but it doesn't mean we're not passionate about issues:D ) My husband also comments dryly about his thick hair, etc. and I don't know why, because my husband has very nice hair too:roll. There was a recent article in this month or last in Atlantic Monthly on him and his Vietnam tour, including some notes from his journal, you might want to check your local library if you're interested. I like him because he doesn't "lay it on thick", he simply tells it like it is.

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Specializes in Community Health Nurse.

Well Kerry and I should click just fine politically because I, too, am one to tell it like it is. I'm more reserved than most people I know, and tend to be more on the conservative side of issues.

Thanks for the suggestion about the article to read on his trip to Vietnam. I had relatives serve in Vietnam, so it still seems to perk my interest when it comes up for discussion. :)

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