Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update

Babzuptown · May 25, 2009

Yes,

They want to import to weaken the union position in bargaining. They want us to feel replacable. They really bombed out with the Philapino nurses, remember 4-5 years ago. They found the nurses were not as educated as US nurses.

GilaRRT · May 25, 2009

Well, is there any evidence and outcome based research that supports better outcomes with foreign nurses versus nurses educated in the USA? The bottom line IMHO, is the outcome.

It is true that entry level RN's in many countries have a four year degree.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · May 25, 2009

Well, is there any evidence and outcome based research that supports better outcomes with foreign nurses versus nurses educated in the USA? The bottom line IMHO, is the outcome.
It is true that entry level RN's in many countries have a four year degree.

I don't believe that research has been done, but look at the web site hospital compare, search hospitals where nurses foreign nurses are employed and you will see that patient satisfaction is lower.

Check the NCLEX results, most foreign nurses fail while US nurse pass.

But the bigger issue in my opinion is that American jobs should go to Americans first.

GilaRRT · May 25, 2009

I don't believe that research has been done, but look at the web site hospital compare, search hospitals where nurses foreign nurses are employed and you will see that patient satisfaction is lower.
Check the NCLEX results, most foreign nurses fail while US nurse pass.
But the bigger issue in my opinion is that American jobs should go to Americans first.

I disagree, the bottom line is patient care.

However, I doubt this is the case, regarding the discussion at hand.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · May 25, 2009

The problem is the American public believes there is a "nursing shortage". Because they believe this, they will watch idly while politicians/lawyers, under the disguise of "helping the nursing shortage", take measures to put nurses in a position where they have to accept any wage/work conditions given them. It's a "Wolf in sheep's clothing" act. And it is working. The general public is completely under their spell, afraid for their lives, thinking a phantom "nurse shortage" will mean they or their loved ones will not be cared for.

The powers that be are working hard to take the nursing career back to the days of long ago. They want us to accept terrible ratios, work with out support staff and proper supplies, make all the "problems" of their poor work environment "just go away" and be grateful we are making our $10/hr while doing it.

There is a solution to this problem, but nursing is not loyal enough to itself to do the things to prevent them from being successful. If we were to make the general public aware of what is truly making the modern medical model fail, we would have a fighting chance of stopping these people. Expose hospitals who claim they dont have money to hire nurses but continue to expand their facilities and employee excessive amounts of administration. Show the public how, hospitals refuse to hire US trained nurses, claiming it is too expensive to train them, but turn around and spend millions on importing foreign nurses.

This will never happen though. As evidenced by many threads on this site, we are too busy poking each other over donuts being eaten by students or talking about who has gained weight this past month. Much too busy doing these very important things to be bothered with educating the public or to unite against those who mean our profession harm.

What's that you say..........Sally is having an affair with a resident? OK, gotta go. This will give me something to talk about for a week at least. Trying to keep nursing from becoming a sweet shop career will have to wait.

Bidwillty · May 25, 2009

As a foreign trained nurse I can see both sides, I did pass NCLEX the first time, but in defence of international nurses many of us work with an expanded scope of practice because we do not have the extra staff like respiratory therapists, NP's etc, those roles in the hospital fall to the RN, so that being said NCLEX does not allow for the autonomy many of us have. I was asked to come and work in this country, I am currently pursuing my MSN and have had to jump through many hoops and spend hundreds of dollars to get my foreign degree broken down to the american equivalent. Not all international nurses are bad, but that being said not all all good, but the same can be said for those who trained in this country.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · May 25, 2009

As a foreign trained nurse I can see both sides, I did pass NCLEX the first time, but in defence of international nurses many of us work with an expanded scope of practice because we do not have the extra staff like respiratory therapists, NP's etc, those roles in the hospital fall to the RN, so that being said NCLEX does not allow for the autonomy many of us have. I was asked to come and work in this country, I am currently pursuing my MSN and have had to jump through many hoops and spend hundreds of dollars to get my foreign degree broken down to the american equivalent. Not all international nurses are bad, but that being said not all all good, but the same can be said for those who trained in this country.

Thank you for posting, I agree that there are many many very competent foreign nurses practicing in the USA. The issue I see is there a need for an EMERGENCY bill to be passed? I don't think so. I agree that there is the potential for a nursing shortage in the future but shouldn't qualified Americans have the opportunity to go to school here?

Also I don't think the NCLEX is a true evaluation of a nurses education, I feel Americans should adopt a competency evaluation process and or a bridging program to verify a foreign nurse's education.

Good for you for going for your MSN.

My post was not demean the foreign nurses who are practicing here in the USA, but nursing and immigration should not be mixed. If there is a going to be shortage of nurses shouldn't Americans be considered first?

Vito Andolini · May 25, 2009

the problem is the american public believes there is a "nursing shortage". because they believe this, they will watch idly while politicians/lawyers, under the disguise of "helping the nursing shortage", take measures to put nurses in a position where they have to accept any wage/work conditions given them. it's a "wolf in sheep's clothing" act. and it is working. the general public is completely under their spell, afraid for their lives, thinking a phantom "nurse shortage" will mean they or their loved ones will not be cared for. i hope you are doing something to educate and inform them otherwise. we all need to be writing our congressional reps and senators, both state and federal. today. right now. we all need to get off of the board here right now and right to our reps. us. now.
the powers that be are working hard to take the nursing career back to the days of long ago. they want us to accept terrible ratios, work without support staff and proper supplies, make all the "problems" of their poor work environment "just go away" and be grateful we are making our $10/hr while doing it.
there is a solution to this problem, but nursing is not loyal enough to itself to do the things to prevent them from being successful. if we were to make the general public aware of what is truly making the modern medical model fail, we would have a fighting chance of stopping these people. expose hospitals who claim they dont have money to hire nurses but continue to expand their facilities and employ excessive amounts of administration. show the public how hospitals refuse to hire us trained nurses, claiming it is too expensive to train them, but turn around and spend millions on importing foreign nurses.
this will never happen though. there is no place for negativity. just brighten the corner where you are. do what you can do.
as evidenced by many threads on this site, we are too busy poking each other over donuts being eaten by students or talking about who has gained weight this past month. much too busy doing these very important things to be bothered with educating the public or to unite against those who mean our profession harm.
what's that you say..........sally is having an affair with a resident? ok, gotta go. this will give me something to talk about for a week at least.

if we band together, we might be able to do some good. do it now. do not hesitate.

misplaced1 · May 25, 2009

As an american nurse most European countries wil not readily employee me. Why? Because they employ their own nurses first. So just where is it we newbie's are supposed to work? And please believe this is just the start ,it will reach the more experienced nurses also. And as if someone said this is a patient care more than a work issue I beg to differ. Nursing is not rocket science and americans are perfectly capable of doing the job.

I am new and coming to deeply regret this decision to become a nurse. It was not only a surprise to learn there was no nursing shortage and of course there is not. Clue- When there is a shortage there are plenty of JOBS and employers treat you well because they want to keep you. This "shortage" has been manufactured so that big business can once again push another career tract out of the country, this time by insourcing instead of outsourcing.

But even more exasperating in the "lay down an let the truck run over me because they told me to" attitude of so many nurses. NOT ALL so please understand I am not saying all. I have met wonderful people in nursing, wonderful nurses. But so many of them are so passive and unconconcerned with their own well being it is frightening. Do I want to join this group? I am really questioning myself. I am so sad about this. I feel like if I try to watch out for myself I will "not be a real nurse".

I have had many professional jobs, blue collar jobs before that and have never seen another group of people, much less professionals act this way. Please believe I mean no ill will. But I believe this is something that is practically undeniable. So many nurses accept abuse and that anyone that complains about it is " not a good nurse", not dedicated,,,

So, the big problems here as I see it is nurses themselves. Divided we fall and all that and nurses are the most divided group I have ever seen. No wonder so many hospitals etc are trying to replace them, besides cost, dealing with codependent people is frustrating.

I am going to try and find my place because financially I have to. It is a pity because I passed up some great offers to do a job I thought I would love. So much for being called to something. I certainly didnt take this route for money, but it might keep me there as due to the economy changing I suspect the offers I had in the past are now long gone.

I love people. But I am very disappointed.

Bidwillty · May 25, 2009

I agree we need to educate americans first, but thats where we as nurses need to stand up and say something, we cannot educate nurses if there are not enough educators, the pay rates for teaching are pathetic to say the least and there is not enough nurses who have graduae degrees wanting to work for peanuts and I cannot blame them. I recently completed a year long graduate teaching fellowship during my MSN programmed and let me telll you it was a ton of work for very little compensation. I enjoy teaching but will not consider doing it full time when I can make almost double in the clinical setting. So maybe we should start with getting things in place to adequately educate those wanting to be nurses here in the US and then we can make everyone happy and not blame others who come here to earn a decent living that they may not earn in their home country.

GilaRRT · May 25, 2009

And as if someone said this is a patient care more than a work issue I beg to differ. Nursing is not rocket science and americans are perfectly capable of doing the job.

Why disagree? Is patient care and the positive outcome not the bottom line? My argument is more hypothetical; however, I still think it is valid. Currently, I cannot find any evidence that foreign nurses improve patient outcomes. However, let's say a large double blinded peer reviewed trial concludes that Australian educated nurses lead to significantly improved outcomes in the United States? Lets even say several large trials over several years make the same conclusions? My stance is that if this were the case, then Australian nurses should be given the first pick of jobs.

Having good data and evidence is the best way to ensure jobs remain open to Americans. If we can gather evidence that supports having US nurses fill these positions, it will make defending our stance much easier. My argument is one of intelligence over emotion. Getting angry and crying about this will not help, get the evidence, make a strong case, and let the people know.