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Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update



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No. 80
Old May 27, 2009, 08:05 AM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
Closing this thread for a cooling off period
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No. 81
Old May 28, 2009, 07:11 AM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
OK. Reopening the thread and can we please try and keep this to a more constructive and friendly debate
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No. 82
from Hushdawg
Old May 28, 2009, 08:47 PM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
Yes Ma'am! Thank you for the gentle reminder.

I'd like to suggest that we stop using arguments of substandard education and healthcare facilities as a reason not to bring nurses in from outside the USA.
It is very demeaning to non-US nurses who do not fit into the stereotype that is being perpetuated.

Non-US nurses who are passing NCLEX and have been accepted as potential hires by US Hospitals are already going through massive screening processes at the BON level as well as the hospital administration level to ensure that only quality care providing nurses are being hired to work in the USA.

Let's focus on the real issue at hand which is NOT the imporation of nurses in general; but rather the extension of 20,000 green cards annually with adjustments as needed (under review each year) for RNs to fill the impending (not current) nurse shortage.

This of course will overlap issues of nurse employment in general in the USA and nurse working environments/conditions/treatment by hospitals/etc.

Fair enough?
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No. 83
from lawrence01
Old May 29, 2009, 12:39 AM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
Let's focus on the real issue at hand which is NOT the imporation of nurses in general; but rather the extension of 20,000 green cards annually with adjustments as needed (under review each year) for RNs to fill the impending (not current) nurse shortage.

This of course will overlap issues of nurse employment in general in the USA and nurse working environments/conditions/treatment by hospitals/etc.

Fair enough?
Don't forget to mention that it's only good for 3 years then it stops.
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No. 84
Old May 29, 2009, 03:59 PM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos083.htm#Employment change. Employment of registered nurses is expected to grow 23 percent from 2006 to 2016, much faster than the average for all occupations. Growth will be driven by technological advances in patient care, which permit a greater number of health problems to be treated, and by an increasing emphasis on preventive care. In addition, the number of older people, who are much more likely than younger people to need nursing care, is projected to grow rapidly.

However, employment of RNs will not grow at the same rate in every industry. The projected growth rates for RNs in the industries with the highest employment of these workers are:

Percent
Offices of physicians 39
Home health care services 39
Outpatient care centers, except mental health and substance abuse 34
Employment services 27
General medical and surgical hospitals, public and private 22
Nursing care facilities 20
Employment is expected to grow more slowly in hospitals—health care’s largest industry—than in most other health care industries. While the intensity of nursing care is likely to increase, requiring more nurses per patient, the number of inpatients (those who remain in the hospital for more than 24 hours) is not likely to grow by much. Patients are being discharged earlier, and more procedures are being done on an outpatient basis, both inside and outside hospitals. Rapid growth is expected in hospital outpatient facilities, such as those providing same-day surgery, rehabilitation, and chemotherapy.

My point is hospitals are not where the nursing shortage is going to be. Currently in 2009, I don't see many hospitals recruiting any one.

Could someone point me to the hospitals that have a shortage? I am assuming this is a perceived shortage and not real.


The need will be in less desirable ( and lower paying positions) in home health and out patient centers. Why are they not actively recruiting it seems odd since they are a biggest risk.
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No. 85
Old May 29, 2009, 04:21 PM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
Originally Posted by Hushdawg View Post
Yes Ma'am! Thank you for the gentle reminder.

I'd like to suggest that we stop using arguments of substandard education and healthcare facilities as a reason not to bring nurses in from outside the USA.
It is very demeaning to non-US nurses who do not fit into the stereotype that is being perpetuated.

Non-US nurses who are passing NCLEX and have been accepted as potential hires by US Hospitals are already going through massive screening processes at the BON level as well as the hospital administration level to ensure that only quality care providing nurses are being hired to work in the USA.

Let's focus on the real issue at hand which is NOT the imporation of nurses in general; but rather the extension of 20,000 green cards annually with adjustments as needed (under review each year) for RNs to fill the impending (not current) nurse shortage.

This of course will overlap issues of nurse employment in general in the USA and nurse working environments/conditions/treatment by hospitals/etc.

Fair enough?

The jobs that need to filled need experienced nurses. Many of the nurses who wish to come to the USA have no experience.
As an experienced outpatient nurse, you have to be aware of community resources.

The positions in the hospitals are non existent ( at least my observation), could you show me a web site of a hospital that is actively looking for new graduates? Not an agency or a temporary work agency. Are these hospitals advertising in our states where jobs are plenty?

My last point is hospitals have told our president they will reduce health care costs by 1.5%, recruiting our of area is very expensive. How are hospitals planning on making up the costs of recruitment ?
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No. 86
from Hushdawg
Old May 29, 2009, 11:51 PM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
Originally Posted by Alexk49 View Post
My point is hospitals are not where the nursing shortage is going to be. Currently in 2009, I don't see many hospitals recruiting any one.

Could someone point me to the hospitals that have a shortage? I am assuming this is a perceived shortage and not real.
You've double-spoken here.

Your word choice in the first statement is "where the nursing shortage is going to be." Then you follow up with "Currently" and "have a shortage" instead of "will have."

That's the whole point. There are hospitals hiring in small cities and rural areas all across the USA at standard or below standard rates.

The purpose of this bill is the projection based on statistics and numbers of impending retiring nurses that we will be facing a major shortage of nurses working within just a few years. This is why the emergency nurse relief act only has a few years of time to be in effect. It is NOT a permanent addition to the number of green cards each year, rather it is an adjusted addition to facilitate the needed growth in the short term while the nursing schools work to fill the gap in long term.
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No. 87
from Hushdawg
Old May 30, 2009, 12:01 AM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
Originally Posted by Alexk49 View Post
The jobs that need to filled need experienced nurses. Many of the nurses who wish to come to the USA have no experience.
As an experienced outpatient nurse, you have to be aware of community resources.
Your first argument is irrelevant. Hospitals in the USA do not hire foreign nurses without experience. Almost all of them require 2 years in clinical setting.

Let's focus on realities of who will actually be working in US hospitals rather than those who WISH to come.

I had a conversation this morning with a nurse who spoke fluent English (better than some Americans I went to High school with, that's for sure!) and has worked for 3 years in a US hospital in Saudi Arabia. This is the caliber of nurse that will end up working in US hospitals. One of the best things that comes out of retrogression is the backup supply of nurse is going to allow hospitals to be very choosy over who they hire so that they really get the best of the best.

Your second argument is highly irrelevant. If you follow that logic then no nurse could ever work in a hospital outside an area that she has lived. Therefore no nurse from New York City should ever work in a small city hospital in North Carolina since the communities are completely different.

Originally Posted by Alexk49 View Post
The positions in the hospitals are non existent ( at least my observation), could you show me a web site of a hospital that is actively looking for new graduates? Not an agency or a temporary work agency. Are these hospitals advertising in our states where jobs are plenty?

My last point is hospitals have told our president they will reduce health care costs by 1.5%, recruiting our of area is very expensive. How are hospitals planning on making up the costs of recruitment ?
I just did a quick search here: http://www.nursetogether.com/JobSear...8/Default.aspx

There are 6+ pages of results in various places.
Again, you miss the point. This isn't about a nurse shortage RIGHT NOW. It is about a nurse shortage within the next few years because of the advancing age of currently working RNs.

Recruitment is being cut in the following ways:
agencies and hospitals are no longer paying for NCLEX registration or exams, they are no longer paying for review courses or visa applications.
Agencies are seeking out "ready-to-go" nurses.
That cuts out a TON of money being spent.
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No. 88
Old May 30, 2009, 07:37 AM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
Originally Posted by Hushdawg View Post
Your first argument is irrelevant. Hospitals in the USA do not hire foreign nurses without experience. Almost all of them require 2 years in clinical setting.
We have many members posting in the International forum that they have no nursing experience and have employers in the US but stuck in retrogression. Agencies generally will ask for experience but reading the threads in the International section many especially in the Philippines are struggling to get this experience.
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No. 89
Old May 30, 2009, 08:32 AM

Default Re: Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update
Originally Posted by Hushdawg View Post
Your first argument is irrelevant. Hospitals in the USA do not hire foreign nurses without experience. Almost all of them require 2 years in clinical setting.

Let's focus on realities of who will actually be working in US hospitals rather than those who WISH to come.

I had a conversation this morning with a nurse who spoke fluent English (better than some Americans I went to High school with, that's for sure!) and has worked for 3 years in a US hospital in Saudi Arabia. This is the caliber of nurse that will end up working in US hospitals. One of the best things that comes out of retrogression is the backup supply of nurse is going to allow hospitals to be very choosy over who they hire so that they really get the best of the best.

Your second argument is highly irrelevant. If you follow that logic then no nurse could ever work in a hospital outside an area that she has lived. Therefore no nurse from New York City should ever work in a small city hospital in North Carolina since the communities are completely different.



I just did a quick search here: http://www.nursetogether.com/JobSear...8/Default.aspx

There are 6+ pages of results in various places.
Again, you miss the point. This isn't about a nurse shortage RIGHT NOW. It is about a nurse shortage within the next few years because of the advancing age of currently working RNs.

Recruitment is being cut in the following ways:
agencies and hospitals are no longer paying for NCLEX registration or exams, they are no longer paying for review courses or visa applications.
Agencies are seeking out "ready-to-go" nurses.
That cuts out a TON of money being spent.
I went to the search site and the positions I saw were for very seasoned nurses with a specialty. If a US born nurse is not available for these very specialized positions, I agree there is a need to bring in the nurses. I did see very few medical surgical nurses, so the foreign nurses will need specialty experience also.

If the agencies are not paying for travel expenses, prep courses, housing, that is even better. This means the foreign nurses would be processed like the native nurses. If there is a bonus, the foreign nurse should be entitled to it ( just like a native nurse) after they have been successfully employed.

If you look at the history of nurse immigration traditionally the nurses went to urban hospitals, if there is a need in rural lower paying jobs and the foreign nurses are willing work in these areas, I would see it as a good situation.

Are the foreign nurses aware that the situation has changed? That you must have experience and pay your own way?
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