Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update

The statments are offensive.

Saying "only an Associate's degree" is like saying that an associate's degree is garbage.

Actually, I can think of an associate's degree that pays very well: Photography.

Photography was my first degree and it was an associate's. Some of my classmates went on to become staff photographers earning 70-80K per year. I went freelance to supplement my income from another job while I was studying for another degree and could earn $1200 in one weekend.

So associates degrees are not garbage, they are simply concentrated courses on programs which can be taught in a shorter period of time.

That being said, however, let me illustrate a point.

Two people come to apply for a staff job in your hospital. Both are licensed in your state.
One has an Associate's degree in Nursing






One has a BA in Nursing
Which would you hire for one available slot?

Usually you go for someone more qualified.
Isn't someone with a BA more qualified than someone with an Associate's?

Almost all foreign nurses are BA holders.

Maybe this also makes a difference?

So all is well as long as someone is O.K with working under these conditions? What about the patients? What kind of care do you think they are receiving? We are all aging and we are susceptible to illness or injury at any time in our lives. At some point in almost everyone's life they will need to be hospitalized or be in need of permanent care in a SNF/LTC. I ask over and over again....is this the kind of care that you want for yourself or your loved ones? I swear I would rather be dead than be a patient in a lot of places. I know that what we get here in the U.S is better than the 3rd world but what kind of standard is that for comparison?

The Bachelors Degree is a Bachelor of SCIENCE in Nursing, not a Bachelors of ARTS in Nursing. The difference is about 20 -30 College Level SCIENCE classes. If foreign nurses have a Bachelors of Arts in Nursing, then NO, they are not the educational equivalent of American colleges. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

The statments are offensive.

Saying "only an Associate's degree" is like saying that an associate's degree is garbage.

Actually, I can think of an associate's degree that pays very well: Photography.

Photography was my first degree and it was an associate's. Some of my classmates went on to become staff photographers earning 70-80K per year. I went freelance to supplement my income from another job while I was studying for another degree and could earn $1200 in one weekend.

So associates degrees are not garbage, they are simply concentrated courses on programs which can be taught in a shorter period of time.

That being said, however, let me illustrate a point.

Two people come to apply for a staff job in your hospital. Both are licensed in your state.
One has an Associate's degree in Nursing
One has a BA in Nursing
Which would you hire for one available slot?

Usually you go for someone more qualified.
Isn't someone with a BA more qualified than someone with an Associate's?

Almost all foreign nurses are BA holders.

Maybe this also makes a difference?

Hushdawg,

You make a living counseling RNs who wish to immigrate to the USA and you do not practice in the USA ( Much different then knowing trends) so I would say you have a vested interest in seeing this bill approved. Not that this is bad, but your viewpoint is very different than a practicing nurse.

My point is a nurse should get the education for the country they plan to practice in the country. Not having the proper education in the area and local you wish to practice is a disadvantage .

UK Nurse= UK Education

Canada Nurse = Canada Education

etc, etc.

The thing is some countries are trying to make a living by exporting nurses to other countries. In my opinion they only way they are going get an equal education is having a equal clinical experiences, this can happen by having hospitals and clinics that are set up to the country they wish to practice standards or have rotations ( that are approved by the BON) to meet their standard.


This has nothing to do with a nurse being different color or race only based on education and citizenship of the nurse.

For a long time, there was a thought a nurse is a nurse and you can float a nurse to any location in a hospital and the nurse should be able to function without any orientation. No one excepts that any nurse moving to have a detailed orientation yet this bill proposed that nurses from a foreign country can jump in and function at 100% , sorry I don't buy it.

With the greatest of respect how can a COUNTRY make a living exporting nurses? Where do you get this stuff? Also, as for educating people in the country they are going to work in; do you think this is the case for all professions -- or just nursing? What about foreign doctors? This country would have collapsed without foreign educated individuals.

As for the idea of a some "shadow" nursing workforce sitting around waiting for the planets to align before they jump back in? Rubbish. This idea has been debunked again and again. These "inactive" nurses have repeatedly reported that their top reasons for leaving were in fact not related to conditions & pay and that they are not poised to come back to work.

I confess having waited for one of you naysayers to make a good point in this discussion I have become bored.

With the greatest of respect how can a COUNTRY make a living exporting nurses? Where do you get this stuff? Also, as for educating people in the country they are going to work in; do you think this is the case for all professions -- or just nursing? What about foreign doctors? This country would have collapsed without foreign educated individuals.

As for the idea of a some "shadow" nursing workforce sitting around waiting for the planets to align before they jump back in? Rubbish. This idea has been debunked again and again. These "inactive" nurses have repeatedly reported that their top reasons for leaving were in fact not related to conditions & pay and that they are not poised to come back to work.

I confess having waited for one of you naysayers to make a good point in this discussion I have become bored.

Countries make a living by exporting nurses from the MONEY, that these nurses earn in he United States, and send the money back to their home country for their families to spend to support themselves.

And yes, as has been stated, there are 500, 000 nurses who are not working, and could/would return to active practice. However, as it stands now, you might as well as have leprosy, than try to return to work in active nursing after not having practiced for a couple of years.

Hospitals make it almost impossible for older nurses to return to work. They would rather pay new grads and pay them to go through a new grad orientation, than pay older nurses, who have been around the block a few times, and who would not be too easly pushed around.

I would not be happy if this county brought in thousands of foreign nurses, before they have exhausted ALL OF THEIR OTHER OPTIONS. Here in Washington State new grads are unable to get jobs after graduation, and now Swedish Hospital in Seattle had sent out recruiters to bring in foreign nurses from the Phillipines. Why? There are hundreds of nurses here in Washington State who need jobs, and they have no business bringing in foreign nurses to take these jobs. Of course, these foreign nurses would not be unionized by the state nursing association, or SEIU.

The name of the game is CONTROL OF THE NURSING PROFESSION!! Nurses have been told by their employers, "do what we tell you, or you will be replaced by foreign nurses from 3rd world countries, who will do anything we tell them to do".
THAT is what happened with the Sentosa nurses on Long Island, in NY.

THAT is what the issues are!

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington