Eating healthy on 21 dollars per week... - page 4

... Read More

  1. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from apoole77
    I believe I am on my way from poor to non-poor mostly because of social programs. I recieved Medicaid, cash asssistance, food stamps and daycare assistance at some point over the past 3 years - which I now don't because of a federal scholarship (HRSA nursing scholarship)- also from tax-payer money, but somehow more socially acceptable. Yes, I agree that there are many people who abuse the welfare system, but it has been the only way possible for me to continue my education. I could have continued for the next 10 or so years making 13.00 dollars an hour and barely support my family - education was vital for the improvement of my childrens lives. In a year I will not need these programs and my kids will be better off then they ever were.

    People make errors in judgement, but my childrens very existance should not be questioned. The problem would just perpetuate if poor kids are considered "mistakes" that don't deserve proper nutrition.

    I don't intend to sound entitled to assistance, for it I am very grateful. But my point is that when used properly usually in conjunction with educational programs, assistance programs can break cycles of poverty.

    And living on welfare is not really a life anyone would strive for. I recieved 400 dollars a month cash assistance and 300 dollars a month food stamps for my family of 3. Half of the cash assistance went to supplement the food stamps so that my family could continue to eat healthily leaving 200 dollars a month for everything else (clothing, textbooks etc). I am not complaing about the amount I recieved, I am just saying that anyone who chooses to live on welfare for a long time is going without a lot of things.
    It was "A" way to continue your education, but not "the only way." This, however, is not a primary point that I feel a need to make, because in this case, you made it work. Most people don't.

    This scenario is an example of how the welfare system is supposed to work; a bridge to self improvement...but that's not how it is typically engaged or presented by many of it's recipients and advocates. BTW, there were obviously some choices made that led to this scenario, and while I won't judge anyone for these choices, I also don't think that they should be ineligible to bear the consequences...which you obviously did with great grace.

    The sad part is that even though you won't need these program in a year, the pro-welfare establishment won't champion you as an example of a success story; they would just as soon keep you and your children captured in the welfare cycle, placing the entire burden of responsibility for your children on me and everyone else instead of recognizing the different that YOU as the parent can, should, and did make in this process.

    That's the part of the welfare mentality that is simply nuts.

    BTW, the existence of children is most definitely a consideration; welfare advocates typically believe it would be fine to abort a baby than to raise it poor. And more accurately, it's not the existence of these children that is questioned, it's the decision to have them when people can't take care of their own.

    I don't have children, but I would love to have a child (actually would like to have two). I, unfortunately, don't have the resources to raise a child. For that reason, I have chosen NOT to have one until I have those resources instead of tasking someone else to be financially responsible for my child without having any say in my decision.
  2. by   Simplepleasures
    To punish the children for the sins of the fathers is just plain WRONG. The kids that get free school breakfasts and lunches and their food at home with food stamps deserve not to go hungry, NO MATTER the worthlessness of the parents.How did we as a nation become so selfish? I would HOPE that we as a society would feel ashamed at the attitude that those in need are ALWAYS to be blamed for their predicament. There by the grace of God, go I?Sound familiar?
    Last edit by Simplepleasures on May 24, '07
  3. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from apoole77
    I believe I am on my way from poor to non-poor mostly because of social programs. I recieved Medicaid, cash asssistance, food stamps and daycare assistance at some point over the past 3 years - which I now don't because of a federal scholarship (HRSA nursing scholarship)- also from tax-payer money, but somehow more socially acceptable. Yes, I agree that there are many people who abuse the welfare system, but it has been the only way possible for me to continue my education. I could have continued for the next 10 or so years making 13.00 dollars an hour and barely support my family - education was vital for the improvement of my childrens lives. In a year I will not need these programs and my kids will be better off then they ever were.

    People make errors in judgement, but my childrens very existance should not be questioned. The problem would just perpetuate if poor kids are considered "mistakes" that don't deserve proper nutrition.

    I don't intend to sound entitled to assistance, for it I am very grateful. But my point is that when used properly usually in conjunction with educational programs, assistance programs can break cycles of poverty.

    And living on welfare is not really a life anyone would strive for. I recieved 400 dollars a month cash assistance and 300 dollars a month food stamps for my family of 3. Half of the cash assistance went to supplement the food stamps so that my family could continue to eat healthily leaving 200 dollars a month for everything else (clothing, textbooks etc). I am not complaing about the amount I recieved, I am just saying that anyone who chooses to live on welfare for a long time is going without a lot of things.


    GOOD FOR YOU! :spin: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat:
  4. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from darrenwright

    the sad part is that even though you won't need these program in a year, the pro-welfare establishment won't champion you as an example of a success story; they would just as soon keep you and your children captured in the welfare cycle, placing the entire burden of responsibility for your children on me and everyone else instead of recognizing the different that you as the parent can, should, and did make in this process.

    comment: ridiculous assumption. social investment always has the goal of helping people to become self sufficient and giving them the tools to support their children.

    that's the part of the welfare mentality that is simply nuts.

    btw, the existence of children is most definitely a consideration; welfare advocates typically believe it would be fine to abort a baby than to raise it poor. and more accurately, it's not the existence of these children that is questioned, it's the decision to have them when people can't take care of their own.

    comment: that is a very broad brush that you are painting. i can honestly say that i have never read anything in the progressive media that would make that type of argument in favor of individual conscience. if anything it is to argue that society has an obligation to children to give them every opportunity possible to have the skills to succeed.
    but what would galbraith make of today's student-loan system? government enables private banks to make loans, structures the market, and guarantees profits. it is considered half-private, half-public. yet it is horribly complex, rife with corruption, and $6 billion a year that could help students afford college instead fattens the coffers of private lenders, enriching people like albert lord, the ceo of sallie mae. an entirely public system, in which government made loans directly to students, would be cheaper and less complex. that might be "bigger government," but it would be more efficient and would better serve the public purpose. alternately, we could have a fully private system, in which banks actually compete and take risks, perhaps by bidding for the right to make loans.
    instead, we have the worst of both worlds: government that is bigger than it needs to be because it helps generate private profits. the same could be said of the medicare advantage program, which supposedly introduces "private-sector competition" to medicare, but instead spends $1,000 more per person than is necessary because it subsidizes private-sector profits.
    http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?...big_government
  5. by   VIXEN007
    I grew up poor and in the projects. Yes, I learned to grow tomatoes in a coffee can. You can also grow lettuce in sawed off milk cartons. We picked strawberries at one of the U-Pick-It places and after we ate some, my mom made the rest into jam.
    We lived on beans and cornbread or beans and rice. I went to bed hungry sometimes. I never had cereal out of a box. It was always grits or oatmeal. I ate lunch on the free lunch program. We got our clothes from Salvation Army or Goodwill. I knew early on that I could not get pregnant, I needed to study hard and ignore the kids who laughed at my clothing.
    When I went to college, I carried everything I owned in one brown paper sack.
    This is the greatest country in the world. You can soar as high as you want. Or, you can sit around and blame the system. You can believe that everyone is equal and has a chance to make it. Or, you can be a liberal and think that patronage is the best way. The Great Society programs are responsible for the soaring illegitimate birth rate, child abuse, feminization of poverty. We spend billions each year handing out fish with little teaching of how to fish.
    I am so sick of people thinking that the best way to help poor people is to give them more money. You need to teach them that the calvary is not coming! How long can the hard-working american people, even the hard working wealthy people continue to support people who breed with more proclivity and less judgement than animals on the Discovery Channel?
    Even animals prepare before becoming parents.
    I donate to the food pantry, homeless shelters, because I believe that there are some people down on their luck who will take advantage of opporunities to improve themselves. Call me judgemental but the Bible says ":trout: if a man doesn't work, he should not eat."
  6. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from VIXEN007
    I am so sick of people thinking that the best way to help poor people is to give them more money. You need to teach them that the calvary is not coming! How long can the hard-working american people, even the hard working wealthy people continue to support people who breed with more proclivity and less judgement than animals on the Discovery Channel?
    Even animals prepare before becoming parents.
    I donate to the food pantry, homeless shelters, because I believe that there are some people down on their luck who will take advantage of opporunities to improve themselves. Call me judgemental but the Bible says ":trout: if a man doesn't work, he should not eat."
    Unbelievably judgemental. No child in America should ever go to bed hungry. Progressives consistently argue for affordable schools and financial aid. (Teaching people to fish.) Read Dave Hage's work about welfare reform. For welfare reform to work the way it is intended means that we need to spend more money on education and health supports rather than less.
  7. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from VIXEN007
    I grew up poor and in the projects. Yes, I learned to grow tomatoes in a coffee can. You can also grow lettuce in sawed off milk cartons. We picked strawberries at one of the U-Pick-It places and after we ate some, my mom made the rest into jam.
    We lived on beans and cornbread or beans and rice. I went to bed hungry sometimes. I never had cereal out of a box. It was always grits or oatmeal. I ate lunch on the free lunch program. We got our clothes from Salvation Army or Goodwill. I knew early on that I could not get pregnant, I needed to study hard and ignore the kids who laughed at my clothing.
    When I went to college, I carried everything I owned in one brown paper sack.
    This is the greatest country in the world. You can soar as high as you want. Or, you can sit around and blame the system. You can believe that everyone is equal and has a chance to make it. Or, you can be a liberal and think that patronage is the best way. The Great Society programs are responsible for the soaring illegitimate birth rate, child abuse, feminization of poverty. We spend billions each year handing out fish with little teaching of how to fish.
    I am so sick of people thinking that the best way to help poor people is to give them more money. You need to teach them that the calvary is not coming! How long can the hard-working american people, even the hard working wealthy people continue to support people who breed with more proclivity and less judgement than animals on the Discovery Channel?
    Even animals prepare before becoming parents.
    I donate to the food pantry, homeless shelters, because I believe that there are some people down on their luck who will take advantage of opporunities to improve themselves. Call me judgemental but the Bible says ":trout: if a man doesn't work, he should not eat."
    Aren't you greatful for the free lunch program? I was left with 4 children and a husband of 19 years who decided to leave his family for a second childhood. I worked full time as an LPN, raised all 4 of my kids to be succesful , responsible adults. All are college grads and one is an attorney and all have great jobs.We worked HARD and ate low cost frugal meals, BUT If not for social programs, such as federal grants, loans,rent and heat assistance and free medical care during the very bad times , I am sure my family would not have had faired as well as we have and any hope of getting out of poverty may have been out of the question. I am exceedingly greatful that there are decent, caring folks in the private sector and our government who do see the nessessity of occasionly helping those in need. My children and myself have since been able to pay back the help we recieved and MORE, by helping others in need WITHOUT judgement.One can plan for any eventuality , only see that all the plans in the world do not always pan out the way we would want them to.
    Last edit by Simplepleasures on May 25, '07
  8. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from hm2viking
    comment: ridiculous assumption. social investment always has the goal of helping people to become self sufficient and giving them the tools to support their children.



    comment: that is a very broad brush that you are painting. i can honestly say that i have never read anything in the progressive media that would make that type of argument in favor of individual conscience. if anything it is to argue that society has an obligation to children to give them every opportunity possible to have the skills to succeed.
    first, social investment has failed miserably at achieving the goal of helping people become self-sufficient. personally, i think it sounds like an oxymoron. people who have not figured out self-sufficiency before the children arrived are not going to learn it from yet another handout.

    broad brushes are used to paint the big picture. and it seems the only thing people believe our society has to give children to give them every opportunity to succeed is other people's money, throwing in a few unproven programs along the way. sometimes growing up poor is the tool or motivator children need to acquire the skills to succeed. i learned a lot building my first lawnmower from spare parts when i was 13, and then taking it on my weekly mowing route, buying my own gas, building my own customer base...the mowing route that payed cash for my first car and helped with my first year of college. i learned far more from that experience (and many others) than you can ever believe you could possibly teach to this new and growing generation with your social programs and perrenial handouts. i don't regret growing up poor, and i don't despise my parents for making the decisions that resulted in my childhood poverty, and i think poverty is an issue that needs to be resolved on an individual basis, using the ancient tenents of hard work, sacrifice, and mixing them with the modern system of free-enterprise, reward, and consequence.
  9. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from HM2Viking
    Unbelievably judgemental. No child in America should ever go to bed hungry. Progressives consistently argue for affordable schools and financial aid. (Teaching people to fish.) Read Dave Hage's work about welfare reform. For welfare reform to work the way it is intended means that we need to spend more money on education and health supports rather than less.
    Schools are affordable, but the more money we put into them, the worse they become.

    No-one opposes financial aid and education, but welfare has distorted itself far beyond money for school and teaching. Plus, the education system is being destroyed by unions and liberalism. The return on our investment in primary education is miserable.

    For welfare reform to show that it's working, the amount of money being spent (by the society as a unit) on education and health will decrease, or at the very least stabilize. If it keeps requiring more and more money, than it isn't working.
  10. by   HM2VikingRN
    • public progams are quite effective at reducing poverty in the us. there are numerous posters on these forums who took advantage of the opportunity that these programs represent to work their way into the middle class.
      • public benefit programs reduced the number of poor americans by 27 million people in 2003, from 58 million to 31 million. the 27 million people removed from poverty included 14 million elderly people and nearly 5 million children. of this 27 million, nearly 11 million were lifted out of poverty by means-tested benefits alone.
      • public benefit programs markedly reduced the severity of poverty for those who remained poor, increasing their average disposable income in 2003 from 29 percent of the poverty line to 57 percent of the poverty line.
      • if we look at the elderly, public benefit programs reduced the number of seniors living in poverty in 2003 by 14 million — more than 80 percent — and lifted the disposable income of those remaining in poverty from an average of just 8 percent of the poverty line to 62 percent of the poverty line. in addition, medicare and medicaid combined to provide health insurance for virtually all of the 35 million americans age 65 and older.
      • if we look at children, public benefit programs lifted nearly one of every three otherwise-poor children above the poverty line in 2003.
      • public health insurance programs reduce the ranks of the uninsured by tens of millions.
      • however, most other western industrialized nations have more effective anti-poverty policies — and lower poverty rates — than the united states, especially for children. research shows that, due in large part to the relative weakness of u.s. benefit programs, the lowest-income children in the united states have lower incomes than their counterparts in other western industrialized nations such as canada, germany, belgium, and the netherlands. for example, the lowest-income 25 percent of children in the united states are poorer than the lowest-income 25 percent of children in canada.

      • in the 1960s, before the food stamp program was established as a nationwide program, various studies found severe hunger to be a significant problem in the united states. today, severe hunger has become relatively rare. rebecca blank, dean of the ford school of public policy at the university of michigan, has observed that “evidence of severe malnutrition-related health problems has almost disappeared in this country. the primary reason is food stamps.”
      • ...
      • a large body of research has consistently found that wic contributes to healthier births, including a reduction in the incidence of low birthweight. infants born with low birthweight are more likely to have serious short- and long-term health problems.
      • a gao analysis estimated that each $1 spent on wic for pregnant women generated $2.89 in health care savings during the first year after the birth of the child and $3.50 in savings over 18 years.
      • children who participate in the school lunch program consume more protein, vitamin b12, riboflavin, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, zinc, and fiber at lunch — and less added sugar — than children who do not eat school lunches.
      • eating breakfast has been shown to have a positive impact on a child’s cognitive development and academic performance. low-income children are more likely to eat a more adequate breakfast if the school breakfast program is available.
    http://www.cbpp.org/7-27-05acc.htm

    see http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org...lity-final.pdf for a discussion of economic mobility in the us. as wage growth has slowed since 1980 this has in effect pushed more people into poverty. this does not reflect a failure of the safety net rather it reflects a deliberate low wage policy pursued by a series of conservative administrations. the minimum wage is at its lowest point in over 40 years.

    while it is quite admirable that you had a lawn mower business as a teenager the reality is that you received direct benefit from a variety of social programs that helped set the stage for you working your way out of poverty. (public school system, financial aids for college, public funding of the college that you attended, are just a few examples off the top of my head.)

    [font='times new roman']
  11. by   justme1972
    I'm not trying to bash people receiving food stamps, however, I live in an area where a disproportinate number of people are receiving government assistance. The grocery stores are mowed down the day people receive their food stamps. You can spot a food stamp buyer in our stores...they always have the overly filled carts, sometimes two.

    These folks also make extremely poor choices. I see their carts filled with only the top brands of food, tons of frozen dinners, individual packages of chips instead of the cheaper large bags. They can also buy professionally decorated birthday cakes with food stamps for $30 in stamps rather than taking the time to make one for about $5. Tons of expensive, pre-prepared snack foods, instead of making your own.

    I'm buying ground beef, they are buying steaks. The government website may say $80 per person, but I guarantee people are getting way more than that.
  12. by   pickledpepperRN
    My parents generation of Americans grew up thankful if they didn't go th be really hungry. Many people starved to death here then.

    The GI Bill of Rights with a stipend and tuition for college or trade school created the American Middle Class.
  13. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from spacenurse
    My parents generation of Americans grew up thankful if they didn't go th be really hungry. Many people starved to death here then.

    The GI Bill of Rights with a stipend and tuition for college or trade school created the American Middle Class.
    I wish all social programs were modeled after the GI bill; it was not a handout, but was something that had to be earned.

close