Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's - page 79

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  1. by   HM2VikingRN
    fox is american pravda. read mountains beyond mountains for a very interesting discussion about cuba's medical system.

    according to who: http://www.who.int/whosis/database/c...ct_process.cfm

    cuba indicator value (year)
    life expectancy at birth (years) males ? 75.0 (2005)
    life expectancy at birth (years) females ? 79.0 (2005)

    united states of america indicator value (year)
    life expectancy at birth (years) males ? 75.0 (2005)
    life expectancy at birth (years) females ? 80.0 (2005)

    life expectancy at birth (years) males ?
    country valuelatest year
    cuba75.0 2005
    united states of america75.0

    2005life expectancy at birth (years) females ?
    country valuelatest year
    cuba79.0 2005
    united states of america80.0 2005

    essentially the same.....
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Oct 29, '07
  2. by   HM2VikingRN
    cuba indicator value (year)
    physicians (density per 1 000 population) ? 5.91 (2002)
    nurses (density per 1 000 population) ? 7.44 (2002)

    op cit.
  3. by   HM2VikingRN
    united states of america indicator value (year)
    physicians (density per 1 000 population) ? 2.56
    (2000) nurses (density per 1 000 population) ? 9.37 (2000)

    op cit.
  4. by   HM2VikingRN
    infant mortality rate (per 1 000 live births) ?
    country valuelatest year
    cuba5.0 2005
    united states of america7.0 2005

    op cit.
  5. by   fronkey bean
    Hi Viking, I have to disagree w/ you about Fox, They aren't controled by the state, they just present the conservative side of news stories, usually w/ a liberal present to present opposing opinions. You can rarely say the same for CNN (about presenting opposing viewpoints I mean).
    The statistics were interesting but not all that telling. The numbers for health professionals were from different years and did not include professionals other than MD's and RN's for Cuba (pharmacists and dentists, in some countries many of the tasks that would fall to these are performed by MD's and RN's which would somewhat negate having more). Also, while Cuba did have a lower infant mortality rate, it is telling to look at what is killing the children. Cuba has a higher incidence of death to infants for diarrhea, pneumonia, and "other causes". The only catogory where the US had a higher incidence of deaths among children under five was injuries. It seems we are better at saving children from communicable diseases but not at keeping them away from dangerous or violent situations, which is more of a legal than a health issue.
    Another number which caught my eye was the disparity between what their gov't spends on health care per capita (201.8 US$) and what ours spends (2724.7). Even given the amount of greed and waste in the US system it is hard to believe the results reported by the Cubans given the amount of money spent. I wonder how much is un or under reported by the truly government controled beauracracy and media?
  6. by   HM2VikingRN
    The data is collected by WHO which is about as nonpartisan as it gets. I think one difference between Cuba and the US from my (admittedly) cursory reading is their emphasis on putting primary care physicians and nurses in the neighborhoods. Cuba is a third/second world country so for them to achieve health outcome measures that are nearly as good as ours is a substantial accomplishment for a nation with limited resources. I also think that they have made policy decisions to invest their health care dollars into primary public health prevention strategies which are cheaper and do result in health cost savings. (I don't like their political system but I do think that we can always ask "what are they doing right?" for lessons to apply to our own country.)

    We can agree to disagree about Fox. I personally think that the two best news outlets for indepth news coverage are NPR (radio) and CSPAN (television).

    One of the things that I personally dislike about Fox is the implied smear or sensationalist news approach. I also dislike their criticism of dissidents. There has also been a pattern (see the Crooks and Liars website) of turning misbehaving republicans into democrats using onscreen graphics. That is dishonest and spinning the news. If you ever get a chance watch Robert Greenwalds "Outfoxed" for a very interesting discussion about media bias and Mr. Murdoch's corporate practices.
  7. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from HM2Viking
    The data is collected by WHO which is about as nonpartisan as it gets. I think one difference between Cuba and the US from my (admittedly) cursory reading is their emphasis on putting primary care physicians and nurses in the neighborhoods. Cuba is a third/second world country so for them to achieve health outcome measures that are nearly as good as ours is a substantial accomplishment for a nation with limited resources. I also think that they have made policy decisions to invest their health care dollars into primary public health prevention strategies which are cheaper and do result in health cost savings. (I don't like their political system but I do think that we can always ask "what are they doing right?" for lessons to apply to our own country.)

    We can agree to disagree about Fox. I personally think that the two best news outlets for indepth news coverage are NPR (radio) and CSPAN (television).

    One of the things that I personally dislike about Fox is the implied smear or sensationalist news approach. I also dislike their criticism of dissidents. There has also been a pattern (see the Crooks and Liars website) of turning misbehaving republicans into democrats using onscreen graphics. That is dishonest and spinning the news. If you ever get a chance watch Robert Greenwalds "Outfoxed" for a very interesting discussion about media bias and Mr. Murdoch's corporate practices.
    I won't disagree about Cuba b/c as I said I've never been there. And I would agree that the WHO is non biased but they use statistics supplied by gov'ts who may not be as honest.
    I like NPR too but find CSPAN a little dry.
    Please give an example of Fox deliberately changing a politicians party affiliation. That is a fact too easy to check. I've seen (w/ my own eyes) Britt Hume, Sheppard Smith, O'Rielly, and Alan Combs all take on Republican scandals w/ no more and no less criticism than for those of Democrats. So much of what gets reported about FOX on websites is deliberate smear that it is hard for me to take any of it too seriously (for that matter I don't look to the internet to keep me informed about what CNN is reporting either, I just watch it).
  8. by   HM2VikingRN
    http://www.crooksandliars.com/catego...news-graphics/









    There are more than likely more of these types of graphics that are used. My own perswonal opinion is that whenever the press gets too close to the halls of government that we risk losing a counterweight to bad government. In other words the press should scrutinize government not become part of the "me too" brigade.To bring this back to the topic I think that all information needs to be evaluated for veracity and accuracy....
  9. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from HM2Viking
    http://www.crooksandliars.com/catego...news-graphics/









    There are more than likely more of these types of graphics that are used. My own perswonal opinion is that whenever the press gets too close to the halls of government that we risk losing a counterweight to bad government. In other words the press should scrutinize government not become part of the "me too" brigade.To bring this back to the topic I think that all information needs to be evaluated for veracity and accuracy....
    I'll have to check these further but I doubt they are deliberate attempts to fool people. Arlan Specter doesn't always vote theway they want him to, but I can't think of anything he's done that would make fox or the Republicans try to disown him.
  10. by   CaLLaCoDe
    Quote from HM2Viking
    (I don't like their political system but I do think that we can always ask "what are they doing right?" for lessons to apply to our own country.)
    I just saw the DVD Sicko by Micheal Moore. I agree, we can always learn from our enemies.
    I did not care for the this film's biased portrayal of Cuba. If you look at this picture with any iota of scepticism you'll think it a little too sunny, a little too bright! This hospital in Havana, where the 911 heroes were brought, is for the communist elites; I honestly doubt that every citizen of Cuba has access to such a state of the art institution.

    Ironically, a recent patient of mine was incarcerated for fifteen years in a Cuban prison. His daughter painted a grim picture. She said that if you are not a communist party member, you can forget about collecting goods and services! Two of her family members, an Uncle and an Aunt died from having been given the wrong medications.

    She also stated that a lot of cubans were exciled to our country and are puppet propagandists personally sent by Castro, especially at our universities; where free reign to speek the communist agenda is allowed, rather encouraged. I saw this first hand at a community college in Northern California. Here we were, students wanting to learn the language of Spanish and we were barraged with how great and grand the Cuban way of life is (presented to us in English, no doubt!). Ironically, I had to learn all the Spanish strictly from the book. You might ask. Why didn't you complain to the head of the language department at the time. He was the head of the language department!

    I do believe that universal healthcare for our citizens is the only just route. We can't afford to have our citizens denied healthcare insurance for reasons of weight, health status etal as I was reminded of in this film; we can't afford to have people not getting healthcare who if they did receive it on an ongoing basis would not be faced with a crisis and show up at our emergency rooms, a train wreck!

    If you haven't seen this film, please see it! It is an eye opener with a nothing untoward said regards to universal health care propaganda twist...however a worthwhile see!
    Last edit by CaLLaCoDe on Jan 3, '08
  11. by   Simplepleasures
    I hope that I am not taken as being predjudiced against Cubans here, but my ex- son in law is Cuban, came here on a raft with his father, I never heard a good word from him about the US or the US government and he was in the Navy! His father and all the older reletives in Florida still do not speak English.His father applied for SSDI at the same time I did, was the same age as me, but because he could not speak English, he was approved, Im still waiting, almost two years later. I was denied on the basis of education and age. Those who dont speak English are considered to be harder to retrain for some other type of work.

    This was particularily difficult as I was also brought to this country as a 3 year old refugee from war ravaged Europe.My family thought they had landed in heaven.They learned English and assimilated into the culture while keeping their German heritage intact. I think that the sentment towards the large influx of illegal immigrants would not be so negative if they would make an effort to learn the language and assimilate, doesnt mean you lose who you are and your own unique heritage.

    I am sorry for hijacking this thread but it just reminded me of the attitude of some who come to this country expecting everything and not even trying to learn the language. I have to end this by saying that my ex-son in law's brother came here and was settled in Ohio by the government, he was not surrounded by Spanish speakers and had to learn the language, he is a very hard worker, a good guy,appreciative of the country that took him in, guess my daughter should have married him instead!
    Last edit by Simplepleasures on Jan 3, '08
  12. by   pickledpepperRN
    A nurse was on O'Reilly to talk about single payer healthcare:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCQoj...eature=related
  13. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from spacenurse
    A nurse was on O'Reilly to talk about single payer healthcare:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCQoj...eature=related
    I remember watching that show, which came on soon after the release of "Sicko". Obviously its intention was to refute the movie, and allegations were made that Micharl Moore's stats were squewed (which he later proved they weren't, and the network had to make a public apology to him).

    Moore knew the ilk of presentations such as that one, which is why he didn't appear on it, to be insulted without cause, and treated as the nurse was, by the presenter interupting and talking over her when he didn't like what she was saying, which was in support of "single-payer".

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