Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's - page 5

... Read More

  1. by   pickledpepperRN
    Last edit by pickledpepperRN on Jun 6, '07
  2. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from spacenurse
    This is a film. Of course it doesn't cover everything. In the 3rd quarter of the 20th century I took speech. Did you? Or English?
    Remember the "Persuasive speech" assignment?
    Or a similar assignment to write a paper?

    This review was written by a woman who did see the film:
    Such a "speech" or "paper" doesn't have to cover everything, but it cannot be intellectually dishonest or misleading in it's attempts to persuade, such as Moore's films are.

    The review was written subjectively by a woman with a specific political agenda. Her position is clear, and she probably wouldn't even deny that her review is biased. What I find disingenius is that she cited an example of an experimental treatment that was not covered by a private insurer, and then championed socialized models, which pay FAR less frequently for experimental treatments.
  3. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from DarrenWright
    Such a "speech" or "paper" doesn't have to cover everything, but it cannot be intellectually dishonest or misleading in it's attempts to persuade, such as Moore's films are.

    The review was written subjectively by a woman with a specific political agenda. Her position is clear, and she probably wouldn't even deny that her review is biased. What I find disingenius is that she cited an example of an experimental treatment that was not covered by a private insurer, and then championed socialized models, which pay FAR less frequently for experimental treatments.
    I haven't seen the film so it is impossible for me to have an opinion.
    MY opinion on healthcare comes both from personal experience and published statistics.

    This is for anyone reading this thread. Do you have a plan to improve our healthcare?
  4. by   HM2VikingRN
    Single Payer! Medicare for all
  5. by   DarrenWright
    Solution;

    Individual responsibility.

    Foresight. Planning. Accept the fact that people with more money simply have greater means to take care of themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that. Celebrities and the wealthy have the means to pay for full-time personal trainers who guide them through their diets and routines. They can afford spas and massages that reduce stress and promote health. They can afford high-end medical services, and uncovered items such as annual full-body CT scans, and concierge medical care.

    I cannot.

    I don't, however, demand that they pay for me to have equal services. Instead, I use the system as it was designed for me, living within my means, setting aside money for emergencies, purchasing disability insurance, and taking care of myself by eating affordable healthy food and getting exercise.

    I realize that some will say it's about basic services, but until this is defined, there is no 'solution.' Tragedy is sometimes unavoidable. As well insured as I am, and in spite of the resources I have to take care of myself in the event of a tragedy, there is no doubt something that could devastate me, but I don't live in fear of that, nor do I expect someone else to compromise themselves to remove that risk from me.

    Instead of counting on the gov't for the solution, people need to take care of themselves. That is why some countries appear to have better healthcare systems; the gov't has taken the role of caregiver, and they ultimately suck at it, and people have resorted to taking care of themselves, even while paying out the nose for substandard services.
  6. by   pickledpepperRN
    We have no system designed for us working people. Medicare is for the elderly and disabled. The VA is for our veterans. I am glad they have it and think it must never again be privatized.
    Our community and faith based hospitals are almost all purchased by chains.

    I was taught in church as a very small child that we are our brothers keeper. We must feed the hungry, cloth the naked, and heal the sick if we can.
    Do unto others. So I am very happy to pay taxes and donate money, blood, and time to improve the lives of my fellow humans.
  7. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from spacenurse
    We have no system designed for us working people. Medicare is for the elderly and disabled. The VA is for our veterans. I am glad they have it and think it must never again be privatized.
    Our community and faith based hospitals are almost all purchased by chains.

    I was taught in church as a very small child that we are our brothers keeper. We must feed the hungry, cloth the naked, and heal the sick if we can.
    Do unto others. So I am very happy to pay taxes and donate money, blood, and time to improve the lives of my fellow humans.
    I agree. We should feed, cloth, and heal them.

    We do not, however, need to pay for finger reattachment, abortions, or other items for the care of able-bodied citizens who simply refuse to spend money on insurance (and there are millions who take the chance in order to spend money elsewhere). Especially when there are millions of us who make the sacrifice to ensure our own coverage.
  8. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from DarrenWright
    I agree. We should feed, cloth, and heal them.

    We do not, however, need to pay for finger reattachment, abortions, or other items for the care of able-bodied citizens who simply refuse to spend money on insurance (and there are millions who take the chance in order to spend money elsewhere). Especially when there are millions of us who make the sacrifice to ensure our own coverage.
    Yes. With single payer the young formerly healthy accident victims in my ICU would have been paying into the single payer insurance plan.
    Many were driving an expensive car, hold season tickets, go on worldwide ski trips, and live in a high rent part of the city.
    Yet when they are injured we taxpayers end up paying the often very large bill.

    With single payer they will all be paying their share. Those who are never injured or suffer a catastrophic illness will pay too.
  9. by   CMCRN
    If any one is interested in actually seeing the movie, and are in California, June 12 in Sacramento, at the convention center, CNA,(California Nurses Association) is sponsering a showing, coupeled with a rally for single payer health care (HM2Viking)
  10. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from spacenurse
    Yes. With single payer the young formerly healthy accident victims in my ICU would have been paying into the single payer insurance plan.
    Many were driving an expensive car, hold season tickets, go on worldwide ski trips, and live in a high rent part of the city.
    Yet when they are injured we taxpayers end up paying the often very large bill.

    With single payer they will all be paying their share. Those who are never injured or suffer a catastrophic illness will pay too.
    How does the taxpayer end up paying the bill for the uninsured who are not covered by medicare or medicaid? And what kind of accidents? Likely they had auto insurance, which we've found to be one of the more generous reimbursements.

    Where I used to work, these people were aggressively pursued for payment; we never passed the bill to the gov't.

    I would like to read some reference to this.
  11. by   pickledpepperRN
    We recently had a patient who was found to be at fault in an auto accident. BAD trauma. This patient had a high paying job. His car was totaled.
    Because he had so little money in the band and no longer had the car as an asset our social service department got him "emergency MediCal (our version of Medicaid).
    He had set backs like infection, transferred out and returned on the vent again.


    Links I could find:

    http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAb...102273722.html

    I do think they will go after him when he is able to work. He has an advanced degree not in a healthcare area.
    He was determined to me medically indigent with his multi week hospitalization.
    My point is that all the ones like him who don't pay increase costs for everyone. When the risk pool includes young healthy people it keeps the cost down.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Abstract
  12. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from spacenurse
    We recently had a patient who was found to be at fault in an auto accident. BAD trauma. This patient had a high paying job. His car was totaled.
    Because he had so little money in the band and no longer had the car as an asset our social service department got him "emergency MediCal (our version of Medicaid).
    He had set backs like infection, transferred out and returned on the vent again.


    Links I could find:

    http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAb...102273722.html

    I do think they will go after him when he is able to work. He has an advanced degree not in a healthcare area.
    He was determined to me medically indigent with his multi week hospitalization.
    My point is that all the ones like him who don't pay increase costs for everyone. When the risk pool includes young healthy people it keeps the cost down.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Abstract
    His auto insurance should've covered him, and you can never design a system that will cover outlyers like this...someone with a high-paying job that didn't have a health benefits package? Someone with a highpaying job who had no assets?

    And if Medical paid his bills, how can he now be liable for payment?

    He is unwise, and I think it's silly that we should consider a single-payer system to protect people who are unwilling to protect themselves. Make him pay, not me.
  13. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from DarrenWright
    His auto insurance should've covered him, and you can never design a system that will cover outlyers like this...someone with a high-paying job that didn't have a health benefits package? Someone with a highpaying job who had no assets?

    And if Medical paid his bills, how can he now be liable for payment?

    He is unwise, and I think it's silly that we should consider a single-payer system to protect people who are unwilling to protect themselves. Make him pay, not me.
    My auto insurance will not pay my medical expenses if I am at fault. The other driver will pay if I am not found to be at fault. My uninsured motorist add on will pay my medical bills if the other driver is not insured.


    The thing is that with single payer a person with income cannot opt out. Plenty of young people choose not to pay for insurance.
    My own daughter wouls if not for me. She can only work 30 hours a week because her job would have to insure her if she worked 32 hours.
    She buys an HMO policy and doesn't use it. She goes once a year to an NP. But is insured if something happens.

close