Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's - page 38

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  1. by   teeituptom
    Quote from baptized_by_fire
    http://www.house.gov/conyers/facts_o...healthcare.pdf

    "pass hr 676 now!
    corporate medicine profit break down
    (*data from ihsp, "the institute for health and socio-economic policy," the research arm of the
    california nurses association, december 9, 2006)
    why does your health care cost so much?
    - on march 2004, a national survey from the common wealth fund found that 2 out of 5 adults have medical bill problems or accrued medical debt.
    - the 20 largest hmos' in the u.s. made $10.8 billion in profits in the most recent fiscal year, (2005). 12 top hmo executives pocketed $222.6 million in direct compensation in the most
    recent fiscal year. (2005).
    - the top seven u.s. health insurers earned a combined $10 billion dollars- nearly triple their profits of 5 years earlier. (wall street journal, august 2006.) in 2004, top executives of the 11 largest health insurers, made a combined $85 million per year in one year. (weiss reports)
    - in 2004, the world's 13 largest drug companies recorded $62 billion in profits. the top 12 drug companies executives collected $192.7 million for the same period.
    -
    dr. william mcguire, ceo of unitedhealth, the nation's second leading health insurers, had $1.6 billion in exercisable options at the end of 2005. (cbn news, october 16, 2006)
    - the aggregate profits for u.s. hospitals reached a record $26.3 billion in 2004, and profits have risen substantially the past few years even as the number of hospitals and hospital beds has
    been shrinking.
    - the nations' 100 most expensive hospitals set their gross charges at an average of 680% (up from 673% in 2002-2003) of their costs.
    - the diagnostic imaging technology category has grown to a nearly a $100 billion dollar a year business. (strategy & business news, 3/31/04, u.s. health care's technology cost
    crisis)"

    do you see the problem with this? they are not just making a profit here- they are making a killing (literally in some cases).
    use their profits, and you can fund uhc and nasa for the next decade
  2. by   HM2VikingRN
    4. You should drive a more efficient car, I also live 2 miles from work. I walk to and from work mostly. Pleasant stroll
    This also helps reduce health care costs. Good for you!
  3. by   Sheri257
    Quote from fronkey bean
    And is gov't provided health care rreally a fundamental "right" when a person rrefuses to modify high risk behaviors when dx'd w/ a health condition that is adversely affected by that behavior?
    What's fascinating is that this, apparently, is also a myth. When Business Week did their own research on the French system, they found that deaths from respiratory disease were half of that in the U.S.

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8/b4042070.htm

    The difference in deaths from respiratory disease, an often preventable form of mortality, is particularly striking: 31.2 per 100,000 people in France, vs. 61.5 per 100,000 in the U.S.

    As you may know, the French love to smoke. It's not anywhere near the taboo that it is in the U.S. So ... why is their respiratory disease mortality rate half of ours?

    If modifying risk behaviors is the answer then ... why isn't the U.S. doing better or, at least just as well, with respiratory disease?

    And if the French are smoking like chimney stacks because they know they'll get government sponsored healthcare, one would think their respiratory mortality rate would be double what ours is ... not the other way around.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jul 6, '07
  4. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from teeituptom
    1 I will leave alone though I said Take the money from the war.

    3. Actually even with UHC there will still be those with Insurance. And the humongous returns of insurance companies will continue.

    2. What Im saying is that it is time to muzzle the immense profits of Pharmaceutical Industries, maybe even have them taken over as part of the UHC.

    4. You should drive a more efficient car, I also live 2 miles from work. I walk to and from work mostly. Pleasant stroll
    1)Again the war is a seperate issue and there are many who think it is required of us to finish what we started. When we do get to the point where we can withdraw from Iraq, we will still have radical elements in the world that don't like America and many home security issues that will require that money. Sorry (really, I am) but that money will never be used for UHC.
    2) That is communism. We have a capitalist system, the gov't can't just "have them taken over" it is illegal. Making a profit is not illegal. YOu may not like it but those profits have fueled plenty of research, jobs, tax income, and charitable donations.
    3) there won't be the humongous profits b/c there won't be near the number of people w/ health insurance. If you lose 80% or so of your customer base, I don't care what you charge the rest, your profits are still going to go way down.
    4)Can't afford a new car, besides my Taurus gets around 25/gallon city, it is not exactly a gas guzzler. Obviously you don't live in the deep South or you would know you can't walk to work here in the summer. At 95-100+ degees and 95% humidity there just isn't enough antiperspirant/deodorant or hairspray to keep you looking and smelling good through a two milie hike. I do walk my kids to the park four miles away but it doesn't matter how bad i look pushing my kids on the swing.:spin:
  5. by   Mentuhotep I
    Quote from Sheri257
    In a way, this gets to the heart of the question raised by Moore's movie. Why are we worried about calling people out on message board posts when this is the real issue ...



    One of the most compelling quotes in the movie was from an American living in France who essentially said: In France, the government is afraid of the people ... in America, the people are afraid of the government.

    Why aren't we, as Americans, demanding more from our government? Shouldn't healthcare be a fundamental right for everyone? As Business Week pointed out, in France the sicker you are, the less you pay ... if you're really sick, you pay nothing.

    Or, is the sad reality that we, as a culture, simply don't care? Is it un-American to question a culture that values profit over everything else, to the point that people are needlessly dying so the healthcare profiteers make even more money.

    I just can't imagine that this is what the founding fathers had in mind.

    :typing
    You raise an interesting question Sheri. I saw "sicko" on July 4th. It was my patriotic duty to watch a Micheal Moore movie on July 4th. I thought the comment by the African-American woman living in France regarding how the French government is scared of the people and in America the people are scared of the government was one of the most profound comments in the movie.

    I think there are probably a number of reasons why Americans aren't politically active and demanding more from their government. I think one of the reasons is that americans are very ignorant. Ignorant in that many americans aren't aware of much that goes on outside of their immediate communities. If people arent aware that a problem exists, they won't act to solve the problem. In the movie sicko, Moore stated that 65% of Americans could not point out the UK on a map. That is just an example of how ignorant many americans are. Another reason why americans aren't politically active is that americans are so divided. Divided along class lines, gender lines, racial lines, etc.

    As far as the "founding fathers" are concerned, they were basically a bunch of racist hypocrites. They claimed to be fighting for freedom yet all owned slaves. They also excluded women from the constitution. They represented the interests of land owning white anglo saxon protestant males, all others didnt matter. So, if you look at it from their perspective, they probably would not care that many americans dont have health care insurance or at best, have health care insurance that doesnt help them in time of serious need. The "founding fathers" would probably not blink an eye at the current situation of health care in the US, as long as rich white anglo saxon protestant males are being taken care of, thats all that matters. After all, thats who they found this country for.
  6. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from spacenurse
    Memo written by vice president of Corporate Communications for Capital BlueCross:

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/...ross_sicko.pdf
    Thanks Spacenurse. It was good to hear the insurers side and see that they are not evil as they are often portrayed. Not perfect perhaps, but not evil either.
  7. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from Sheri257
    What's fascinating is that this, apparently, is also a myth. When Business Week did their own research on the French system, they found that deaths from respiratory disease were half of that in the U.S.

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8/b4042070.htm

    The difference in deaths from respiratory disease, an often preventable form of mortality, is particularly striking: 31.2 per 100,000 people in France, vs. 61.5 per 100,000 in the U.S.

    As you may know, the French love to smoke. It's not anywhere near the taboo that it is in the U.S. So ... why is their respiratory disease mortality rate half of ours?

    If modifying risk behaviors is the answer then ... why isn't the U.S. doing better or, at least just as well, with respiratory disease?

    And if the French are smoking like chimney stacks because they know they'll get government sponsored healthcare, one would think their respiratory mortality rate would be double what ours is ... not the other way around.

    :typing
    Great link Sheri, it is interesting what you didn't mention about the article though. Yes, respiratory mortality rates are lower but, according to the article the tax burden on the French has gotten so high that the French gov't is considering HMO type tactics to contain costs.
    Another thing I thought was interseting is that the article states that the French system is "very similar" to what the US has. Also that it is a mix of public and private funding. I believe it has been suggested in this thread that an increase in public funding for health care for the uninsured and underinsured in addition to pvt insurance would be a good way to solve some of our health care issues w/o having to resort to a Canadian style UHC.
  8. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from Mentuhotep I
    You raise an interesting question Sheri. I saw "sicko" on July 4th. It was my patriotic duty to watch a Micheal Moore movie on July 4th. I thought the comment by the African-American woman living in France regarding how the French government is scared of the people and in America the people are scared of the government was one of the most profound comments in the movie.

    I think there are probably a number of reasons why Americans aren't politically active and demanding more from their government. I think one of the reasons is that americans are very ignorant. Ignorant in that many americans aren't aware of much that goes on outside of their immediate communities. If people arent aware that a problem exists, they won't act to solve the problem. In the movie sicko, Moore stated that 65% of Americans could not point out the UK on a map. That is just an example of how ignorant many americans are. Another reason why americans aren't politically active is that americans are so divided. Divided along class lines, gender lines, racial lines, etc.

    As far as the "founding fathers" are concerned, they were basically a bunch of racist hypocrites. They claimed to be fighting for freedom yet all owned slaves. They also excluded women from the constitution. They represented the interests of land owning white anglo saxon protestant males, all others didnt matter. So, if you look at it from their perspective, they probably would not care that many americans dont have health care insurance or at best, have health care insurance that doesnt help them in time of serious need. The "founding fathers" would probably not blink an eye at the current situation of health care in the US, as long as rich white anglo saxon protestant males are being taken care of, thats all that matters. After all, thats who they found this country for.
    That may be true for some but I don't think that it is universally true. I am neither rich nor male. I can point to the UK and probably to 50-75% of the rest of the countries on the map (pre and post USSR). I've travelled to third world countries to do medical missions as well as working at a free clinic here in the States. And I'm not alone. While I think that many Americans aren't concerned w/ the health care of others b/c it doesn't concern their day to day life, I don't believe it is because they only care about WASP males.
  9. by   dream'n
    For the life of me, I cannot understand why Americans would not support UHC in this country. I've heard all the arguments, but truly it's rather a simple choice. Do those that oppose it really not care about their fellow un-insured Americans, do they really feel that people should die to maintain an unmoral health insurance system? Our current healthcare system is a business, set up to make alot of money for a few. As nurses we constantly see the ramifications from the 'suits and bean-counters' making the decisions in our hospitals, and regarding patient care. I personally have no feelings one or the other concerning MM, but I certainly know that our system needs fixing and am glad that he has people talking more about it. I am also ashamed that this country seems to put business and money higher than people, not just in healthcare but in other areas as well. My father died for this nation and I've always thought of myself as a patriotic American, but lately I am becoming very disillutioned, and it hurts.
  10. by   HM2VikingRN
    [FONT=Courier]
    [FONT=Courier]Subject: Long Handle Spoons
    [FONT=Courier] A holy man was having A conversation with the Lord one day and said Lord, I would like to know what Heaven And Hell are like."
    [FONT=Courier]The Lord led the holy Man to two doors. He opened one of the doors And the holy man looked in.
    [FONT=Courier]In the Middle of the room was a large round Table.
    In the middle of the table was a large Pot of stew which smelled Delicious and made the holy man's mouth Water.
    The people sitting around The table were thin and sickly. They Appeared to be famished. They were Holding spoons with very long handles That were strapped to their arms and Each found it possible to reach Into the pot of stew and take a spoonful,
    But because the handle was Longer than their arms, they could Not get the spoons back into their Mouths.
    The holy man shuddered At the sight of their misery and suffering.
    The Lord said, "You Have seen Hell."
    They went to the next Room and opened the door. It was exactly the Same as the first one. There Was the large round table with the large Pot of stew which made the holy man's Mouth water.
    [FONT=Courier]The people were Equipped with the same long-handled
    Spoons, but here the people were Well nourished and plump, laughing And talking.
    The holy man said, "I Don't understand."
    It is simple" said The Lord, "it requires but one skill. You see,They have learned to feed each other,While the greedy think only of Themselves."
    I received this email from a friend today. I think it makes a vaery poerful case for single payer. The simple truth is that by working together and with small individual sacrifices we can help everyone to have access to health care.
  11. by   DarrenWright
    Quote from HM2Viking
    We should not have health care by bake sale in this country. I just saw another ad in the paper for a benefit to help pay for medical bills for a lymphoma patient.
    These same fundraisers are occurring in socialized countries like Canada.
  12. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from dream'n
    For the life of me, I cannot understand why Americans would not support UHC in this country. I've heard all the arguments, but truly it's rather a simple choice. Do those that oppose it really not care about their fellow un-insured Americans, do they really feel that people should die to maintain an unmoral health insurance system? Our current healthcare system is a business, set up to make alot of money for a few. As nurses we constantly see the ramifications from the 'suits and bean-counters' making the decisions in our hospitals, and regarding patient care. I personally have no feelings one or the other concerning MM, but I certainly know that our system needs fixing and am glad that he has people talking more about it. I am also ashamed that this country seems to put business and money higher than people, not just in healthcare but in other areas as well. My father died for this nation and I've always thought of myself as a patriotic American, but lately I am becoming very disillutioned, and it hurts.
    Hi Dream'n. Its not that I oppose everyone having access to health care I am just opposed gov't run UHC. There are other ways to deal w/ the problems of our system w/o scrapping the whole system (see previous posts).
  13. by   BBFRN
    Quote from HM2Viking
    [FONT=Courier]
    I received this email from a friend today. I think it makes a vaery poerful case for single payer. The simple truth is that by working together and with small individual sacrifices we can help everyone to have access to health care.
    I really liked that- thanks for sharing it. :spin:

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