Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's - page 35
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Jul 4, '07Quote from fronkey beanThere is a strong correlation between being insured and better outcomes across a variety of domains. My central point remains that populations of states with a high rate of insureds tend to perform better across a wide variety of economic and social measures than states with lower numbers of insureds.Thanks for posting the links to the lists of healthiest and unhealthiest states futher in this thread. However, when I went there I saw MN listed among the healthies but not WI. Also it was not #1 and there were 9 other states that did well, so it does not follow that UHC is the reason or the only reason for the score. Also, for the same reason, TX and FL being at the bottom of the list (w/ 8 other states, what made you pick those two?) does not prove that pvt insurance does not work in all cases or even that it is the reason that these states are rated so poorly.
Being in the top 15 is a lot better than being in the bottom 10.Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Jul 4, '07
Jul 4, '07Quote from HM2Vikingyes there is a strong correlation b/t being insured and better outcomes not b/t UHC and better outcomes. We need to examine what works and does not work in each of the top 10 states not just what works in the UHC states.There is a strong correlation between being insured and better outcomes across a variety of domains. My central point remains that populations of states with a high rate of insureds tend to perform better across a wide variety of economic and social measures than states with lower numbers of insureds.
Being in the top 15 is a lot better than being in the bottom 10.
Jul 4, '07Quote from SueB1967:yeahthat::yeahthat:Sorry-mine went in the trash too! There are many things wrong with our system but MM is not an advocate for nursing. He's out to make a buck but will not get one cent from me! Several years ago when Bill first ran for president he vowed to put his wife in charge of developing a universal health plan for all Americans (which he did-but she was unable to do). A fellow worker at that time was thrilled that when she got done everyone would have health care. I pointed out to her that one of our collegues (with 2 small children) had just cancelled her health insurance with our company because it was too expensive. However, that employee smoked and played bingo several nights out of the week. Did not make sense to me. I believe that everyone should have access to basic health care but do not necessarily believe that the government is obliged to provide it. We should always make provision for the poor and sick among us but not have to subsidize irresponsible choices.
Jul 5, '07health-care costs are sickening
july 4, 2007
by cindy richards email@example.com
as we celebrate the founding of our country today, we'll be remembering all of the great things about america. freedom of religion. freedom of speech. freedom to protest.
what we won't be celebrating is the freedom to get sick without worry.
this most shameful fact about america -- that we all are one job loss away from being insured and many of us are just one major illness away from bankruptcy -- is hardly something to celebrate.
Jul 5, '07Quote from HM2VikingViking, I don't think anyone is arguing that our system is perfect. We could trade newspaper columns all day, some for "Sicko", some against and both would have some truth in them. The question's are: Does MM portray facts honestly in his movie (I haven't seen it yet so I can't say but his track record is poor) and, more importantly, Is the best way to fix our system changing what is bad and keeping what is good or doing away w/ it completly and going to UHC.
Jul 5, '07Quote from DarrenWrightNow we have a daunting Tax deficit, thanks to the shrubYou are confusing a tax surplus (which is the unethical hoarding of taxpayer money), with the national debt (which also grew under Clinton).
Jul 5, '07Quote from fronkey beanNo matter what the system , not everyone is happy.I agree w/ both of you too, but UHC will not prevent that. Just ask the Canadian rich who fly to the US and other countries to get better/faster treatment. Ther is no syst. that is fair to everyone, not even the communists managed that.
If I was going to have surgery and some recovery time. I would rather be in Fla than in Canada in the middle of winter. I hate cold weather,
Jul 5, '07I hope the health care system wasn't the barometer you used that measured this country as "great", because if it is, then this country is number 37, not numero uno.
Quote from Hospice Nurse LPNI agree with Chatsdale. I have no respect for anyone who puts this great country down!
Jul 5, '07What about UHC that exists in France, Canada and the UK. Are they run by communist dictators. The fact is that the american health care system needs to be fixed. If we can learn from Canada, France, the UK and yes, even badass CUBA, then so be it. This notion of labeling as "communists", individuals and institutions that get the job done in a way that differs from how american capitalists do things is rediculous. The communist boogey man was slain over a decade ago. Lets drop the cold war era rhetoric and actually try and think for a change.
Quote from ZASHAGALKAhttp://www.realclearpolitics.com/art..._sickness.html
"Is all that ails the U.S. health-care system that it's not run by a Communist dictatorship? That has long been a premise of apologists for Fidel Castro who extol the virtues of medical care on his totalitarian island nation."
"The only reason to fantasize about Cuban health care is to stick a finger in the eye of the Yanquis. For the likes of Michael Moore, the true glory of Cuba is less its health care than the fact that it is an enemy of the United States. That's why romanticizing Cuban medicine isn't just folly, but itself qualifies as a kind of sickness."
Jul 5, '07Quote from Mentuhotep IWhat about UHC that exists in France, Canada and the UK. Are they run by communist dictators. The fact is that the american health care system needs to be fixed. If we can learn from Canada, France, the UK and yes, even badass CUBA, then so be it. This notion of labeling as "communists", individuals and institutions that get the job done in a way that differs from how american capitalists do things is rediculous. The communist boogey man was slain over a decade ago. Lets drop the cold war era rhetoric and actually try and think for a change.
Hmmm. I see that you capitalized Canada, France, the UK, and Cuba, but failed to capitalized the word American not once, but 2 times. How telling...
Says everything I need to know about you!
Jul 5, '07Quote from cardiacRN2006lol, you've got to be kidding.Hmmm. I see that you capitalized Canada, France, the UK, and Cuba, but failed to capitalized the word American not once, but 2 times. How telling...
Says everything I need to know about you!
Jul 5, '07CASE IN POINT:
Yesterday, I admitted and took care of a 45 y/0 male pt. with DKA. CBG on admit= >650mg./dl.....comatose.....also has underlying HTN, Hypercholesterolemia, Cardiac Arrythmias.
This man works full time, lives alone. His family lives in other states. He has no health care coverage. When he changed jobs, hoping for higher pay, better benefits, the "new" insurance company dropped him for "pre-existing" conditions, from his previous medical treatments received. (so you see, they DO have access to your medical records, and they DO use that information to DENY you!)
He could no longer afford his insulin, his heart meds, etc.
He went to a free clinic, but they did not have the medications and type of insulin that he requires. He called 911....and landed in our ER then ICU....He's doing okay....we have reversed his blood sugar imbalance, and warded off any heart issues at this time, although, his kidneys do show some stress....(dialysis/??)
Soooo, my point is, here is a man who pays taxes, works productively, doesn't do harmful things to himself, ie, smoke, drink, or do illicit drugs, and he can't get adequate insurance to cover his basic needs.
I know he's not an isolated case....ther are many who are in his shoes...
His hospital bill is well over $10K this visit!!
If you think about the math in this, IT WOULD BE CHEAPER FOR ALL OF US TO KICK IN A COUPLE OF HUNDRED DOLLARS A YEAR, AS OPPOSED TO $200 PER MONTH to provide adequate care to people like him.
I realize that there are some people who chose self-destruction, and do all they can to disrupt their health in order to get a free meal and "waited on" by nursing staff. It's my belief that in a UHC, there could be guidelines in place, ie standards....
such as: first suicide attempt, is covered, but only if therapy is followed through on with medications if indicated, for up to a year.
the second one, or third one, will not be covered....
In addition, people who continue to smoke, drink heavily, (ie cause pre-liver failure, etc.) or used illicit drugs, will not have free care....they will have to cough up (sorry about the pun!!) either a percentage of their care, or all of it. I really am tired of taking care of people who are non-compliant, but they come into the ER and ICU wanting us to "fix" them, all the while they are puffing away on their cigarettes. I cannot tell you how many home oxygen therapy patients ALSO SMOKE, while they are trying to breathe!! I also think some patients should be yearly evaluated for obesity issues. If they are involved in daily exercise, are following a healthy diet plan, they get coverage....if not....what ever "illness" befalls them, whether worn out knee joints from lugging around 100 extra pounds, or diabetes, or heart disease, or sleep apnea, it's on them to pay for...
Yes, it's harsh sounding....but sometimes people need to have some incentive to do what is best for them, and they need someone else to "motivate" them to do it...it's just human nature to live in denial and believe that a pack a day habit won't eventually kill you or cost alot of money to treat.
This approach has a huge benefit on our society as a whole....instead of the "just say no" approach, it hit's the segment of society where it matters, and relieves those who don't do harm to themselves from having to pay for those who choose to do so.
Overall, this should improve the health of our country en masse.
I have always believed that people should be rewarded for doing the right thing for their health....instead of their insurance companies getting soaked for their 5th pneumonia due to constant cigarette smoking, how about the patient who engages in preventable measures to stay healthy gets the equivalent of a health care premium for one year straight to their bank account? Since money seems to be the universal language tool, why not reward those who really have earned it?? I know I would run more marathons, walk more miles, drive less, eat better, if I knew at the end I could get a little tax free rebate at the end of the year to use however I pleased....how about you???