Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's - page 33

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  1. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from Tweety
    It's well docuemented that the underinsured and poor have poorer outcomes, but such a comparison would be interesting to read. I wonder if it would include only insured people, or both the uninsured/poor, etc. persons as well. There's obviously two systems here.
    Tweety I truly do understand that those with less insurance have poorer outcomes, it doesn't follow from that that UHC is the best way to provide them with better out comes. For instance, many of the poor out comes are do to poor lifestyle choices. Would our dollar be better spent on education in combination w/ a program to provide the uninsured w/ easier access instead of a complete change to UHC. I would just like to see some alternatives discussed so an informed decision can be made. Some of those alternatives have been mentioned and I'm sure with the right people looking at the problem (i.e. Not a politician) more would surface. I just don't like that the only two choices that are discussed are our present system unchanged or UHC. I just think we should try to see what works and what doesn't work about eachand then try to find some way to use the things that work w/o adding to the problem the things that don't.
  2. by   fronkey bean
    P.S. sometimes it is better to do nothing then to do a very costly wrong thing.
  3. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from Tweety
    I completely agree with you here.

    (Write this day down. I actually agree with and like something you said!!!! OMG The sky is falling. LOL)
    I agree w/ both of you too, but UHC will not prevent that. Just ask the Canadian rich who fly to the US and other countries to get better/faster treatment. Ther is no syst. that is fair to everyone, not even the communists managed that.
  4. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from HM2Viking
    The point I was making was:



    See also
    [b]~</H3>
    http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ...?doc_id=506778
    It doesn't change my position which is "will UHC reduce 'barriers' more than modifying our curent syst?" . I am not yet convinced that it will. Will UHC make the majority of Americans lives better? I'm not sure it will.
  5. by   pickledpepperRN
    No whitewash powerful enough
    By Donna Smith, Proud American appearing in Michael Moore’s SiCKO

    July 1, 2007

    …I also began to see a broader view of the whole private health care
    issue within one story told by a nearly toothless woman from Ohio. Though
    her speech was definitely impaired by her lack of teeth, she spoke with
    courage and without self-pity which might have been easier and certainly
    justified.

    She had health insurance just a couple of years ago through her job. She
    worked, paid taxes and paid her health premiums. But when her dental
    problems became more and more serious, her insurance plan would not cover necessary treatment. It did cover removal of teeth. So, slowly but surely,
    her teeth were pulled.

    She stood before us now in an open-air tent in the hot, thick, mid-day air
    in Atlanta. Huge fans circulated the air and could have drowned out her
    voice, but the crowd was silent and her strength was enough to overcome the background noise.

    She told us that after her teeth were pulled, her employer fired her because
    she was “unsightly.” …

    http://www.calnurses.org/media-cente...982547&print=t
  6. by   Tweety
    Quote from fronkey bean
    I agree w/ both of you too, but UHC will not prevent that. Just ask the Canadian rich who fly to the US and other countries to get better/faster treatment. Ther is no syst. that is fair to everyone, not even the communists managed that.
    I agree, but we can rise to the occasion to try. There are plenty of Americans flying overseas for cheaper, faster care than they can get here. Their insurance companies said no, so they go to India and pay for it themselves.
  7. by   Tweety
    Quote from fronkey bean
    P.S. sometimes it is better to do nothing then to do a very costly wrong thing.
    Sometimes there no risk or gain without expense and discomfort.
  8. by   Tweety
    Quote from fronkey bean
    Tweety I truly do understand that those with less insurance have poorer outcomes, it doesn't follow from that that UHC is the best way to provide them with better out comes. For instance, many of the poor out comes are do to poor lifestyle choices. Would our dollar be better spent on education in combination w/ a program to provide the uninsured w/ easier access instead of a complete change to UHC. I would just like to see some alternatives discussed so an informed decision can be made. Some of those alternatives have been mentioned and I'm sure with the right people looking at the problem (i.e. Not a politician) more would surface. I just don't like that the only two choices that are discussed are our present system unchanged or UHC. I just think we should try to see what works and what doesn't work about eachand then try to find some way to use the things that work w/o adding to the problem the things that don't.
    Fair enough. I'd support a change that helps us all.

    I think to the middle class are affected. A good deal of uninsured are working class people. Many working people have the option of insurance but between child care, car payments, high rents, property taxes and homeowners insurance rates can't afford 200 to 400 per month, and take the risk of going without. I've seen posts on this board "I'm having stomach pains, but have no insurance and can't go to the doctor, I'm s tudent, what should I do." (Naturally those threads are shut down.) I myself went uninsured while in nursing school and working nearly full time for low wages for five years.
  9. by   CRNI-ICU20
    {quote from darrenwright:I want to live in a society that is not influenced by the half-truths, mis-representations, and outright lies of a person who uses these very issues to improperly influence people to react emotionally, and thereby enrich him. }

    Let's see, here's a few off the top of my head....
    "I did not have sex with that woman"
    "Iraq and Sadam Hussein have been aiding Al Queda"
    "Weapons of Mass Destruction"
    "I am commuting the sentence of Scooter Libby"

    I mention just a few of these, because the REALITY is, there is no such place. No matter where you go, you are going to find corruption, people who lie, people who sway the masses with only one-sided argument.
    I want to live in a society that doesn't doom the middle class to the bottom of the rung, or the back of the line, because they make too much money to qualify for assistance, but not enough to afford decent adequate health care....(NOT ALL JOBS/EMPLOYERS PROVIDE MEDICAL COVERAGE FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES.)
    I want to live in a society where those that have worked their whole life, and have paid their taxes, and have done all the "right" things, are not "rewarded" at the end by a foreclosure on their home because they no longer can pay their medical bills and carry a mortgage, just because they get sick.
    I want to live in a society that INVESTS in it's own people. I want to live in a society that looks upon the physical health of it's citizens as a PRIORITY from before birth to old age. I want access to medical care to be inclusionary of those who can't pay as well as those who can only pay a little. I want to live in a society where part of good health care is educational support, and follow up care.
    It is a given that a healthy society is a productive society. Sick people cannot pay taxes, they drain the system....
    Productive people, healthy people, creative people equals a strong economy, strong nation.
    In the 1940's we were told "the Jews are the problem."
    In the 1950' we were told "the communists are the problem"
    In the 1960's we were told, "the blacks are the problem"
    In the 1970's were were told,"the youth are the problem"
    In the 1980's we were told "Iran is our problem"
    In the 1990's we were told "universal health care is our problem"
    In the 2000-2007 we were told, "we have to fight the terrorists on their soil, not on ours, THEY are the problem."

    So you see, someone is always selling you something....
    I just happen to believe that if, as a country, we paid a bit more attention to our OWN, some of those so called "problems" would be unfounded and irrelavent.
    We have been told for 70 years that we have all these problems....
    one of them is the real acute problem that we have in this country called lack of adequate health care. I would like to know what your solution is.
    crni
  10. by   BBFRN
    Awesome post, CRNI!
  11. by   LoisBear
    I saw Michael Moore's movie and just cried. Working in the healthcare industry and also having been a patient-who ended up in bankruptcy court because of being uninsured-I was absolutely disgusted with our whole healthcare system. I know MM didn't show the downsides of these countries, but it is just a crying shame that once again the US looks like the idiot because of our broken multi-player systems...The only time (and that is even getting challenged) that the insurance industry doesn't fight is in hospice care-but you better damm well die quickly and cheaply...or they will fight it.
  12. by   Sheri257
    Quote from CRNI-ICU20
    I mention just a few of these, because the REALITY is, there is no such place. No matter where you go, you are going to find corruption, people who lie, people who sway the masses with only one-sided argument.
    True but, I have to admit that Moore's film has inspired me ... and I'm now looking into retiring in France.

    Not that I think France is utopia but, I wouldn't mind living in a place that at least tries to help people. It's getting to the point that the U.S. is so cold hearted ... what have I got to lose? Might as well try something different.

    :typing
  13. by   pickledpepperRN
    I think Michael Moore was wrong when he blamed Kaiser for the death of the little girl. Her mother called 911. At the MLK hospital ERthe doctor diagnosed her baby and called Kaiser for authorization to treat.
    Kaiser told the ER doc to have the baby brought by private car to Kaiser hospital. The mother begged them to treat her baby at the hospital where she was. She was escorted out as a "threat"

    Whoever answered the phone at Kaiser made a mistake but the doctor working ER at King had an obligation to treat that baby and try to save her life.
    That beautiful little girl would be 15 years old if she had lived.

    MM is not a nurse or doctor. He blamed only Kaiser.

    BUT it is clearly his opinion.

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