Come to America to Have your Baby!! - page 7

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  1. by   pickledpepperRN
    I am a liberal and have no problem with anyone being rich.
    I do have a problem with corporations breaking our labor laws. Health and safety, OSHA regulations, minimum wage, and hours of work laws exist here after horrid conditions.

    All people are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
  2. by   Mulan
    Quote from lindarn
    I just read on the CNN Breaking News website, that Bush is in the process of making arrangements with the Mexican governmeny to begin paying Social Security Payments to illegal immigrants, who have worked here illegally for years. Go figure.

    If you pay them, they will come!

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington

    I wonder how they plan on doing that, since they've probably been using someone elses social security number.

    Oh yeah, I guess the same way they do things now, collect the money from numerous people all using the same number, they can send me a payment to my house and also send one to Mexico to the illegal that's been using my SS number.
  3. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Why shouldn't that BE threatening? There is nothing wrong with retaining your native culture, only if the intent to do so is by first repudiating OUR culture, OUR laws

    When you look at our previous waves of immigration, within the first home-grown generation, you see the children of immigrants trying hand over fist to adopt OUR national values, to BE Americans, in every full measure of that context.

    And in what way precisely do Hispanic immigrants NOT adopt our national values (what are those by the way)? So they prefer to speak their native language? SO what? That is not a rejection of us, it is people speaking a first language, a language that they are comfortable speaking. WHY does that frighten you Timothy?





    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    We have created a form of economic slavery. THEY are not like us and so, do not deserve the basic employment and salary protections enshrined in our laws as basic human rights. THE only way to ensure such protections is to have some control over the process: to limit immigration to levels that allow for quick assimilation. That isn't anti-immigration; it's pro-immigration that allows for those immigrants to be successful not just by their home standards, but by OUR standards, as well.

    Well if that's your stance and the position of a few here who agree with you, then how come we don't have a topic every other week blaming the people who make this "economic slavery" possible? Aside from spacenurse on this topic, how come for the most part no one ******* about the businesses, big and small who use and create this system in which people are not ensured basic employment protections? It seems to me that THOSE are the people who are rejecting American values and who most deserve our "moral outrage."

    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    You are claiming that our distrust of unfettered immigration is tantamount to racism.

    Oh no no no no. That is not what I am claiming at all. I am claiming that unfettered or illegal immigration is the issue that people are using as a cloak to conceal and justify their racism.




    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    How tolerant is it for us to allow 20% plus unemployment in inner city African American communities when next door is a line of illegals just waiting to be picked up for day labor that completely undermines the ability of those inner city communities to effectively compete for the jobs that exist?
    ~faith,
    Timothy.

    Ummmm, one issue does not have anything to do with the other. Unemployment in the inner city African American communities is a result of many factors, illegal immigration is the least of them. And the people who are most upset about immigrants are the same people who give less than a darn about employment in the inner city. Who do you think they blame for their problems when illegal immigrants are not in the picture? Nice try though.
  4. by   HM2VikingRN
    [quote=SharonH, RN;2001649]
    Well if that's your stance and the position of a few here who agree with you, then how come we don't have a topic every other week blaming the people who make this "economic slavery" possible? Aside from spacenurse on this topic, how come for the most part no one ******* about the businesses, big and small who use and create this system in which people are not ensured basic employment protections? It seems to me that THOSE are the people who are rejecting American values and who most deserve our "moral outrage."
    quote]

    Thanks for speaking the truth about justice and racism.
  5. by   HM2VikingRN
    some interesting thoughts from the american prospect:
    ice rhetoric would have you believe these deportees had been planning to apply for credit cards and charge expensive stereos or trips to the spa. the reality is that these meatpacking laborers had done what millions of people in this country do every year. they gave a social security number to their employer that either didn't belong to them, or that didn't exist. and they did it for a simple reason: to get a job in one of the dirtiest, hardest, most dangerous workplaces in america. mostly, these borrowed numbers probably belong to other immigrants who've managed to get green cards. but regardless of who they are, the real owners of the social security numbers will benefit, not suffer.

    swift paid thousands of extra dollars into their social security accounts. the undocumented immigrants using the numbers will never be able to collect a dime in retirement pay for all their years of work on the killing floor.

    ice has not, of course, accused the immigrant workers of the real crime for which they were arrested. that's the crime of working.

    since 1999, however, the afl-cio has called for the repeal of employer sanctions, along with the legalization of the 12 million people living in the united states without documents. one reason is that sanctions are used to punish workers for speaking out for better wages and conditions.

    what i think is particularly significant about this article is the way it details the intersection of labor rights and immigration reform. anyone who has ever worked in a meat packing plant knows that it is hard, dirty and dangerous work. elsewhere in the article it points out that the real goal of immigration enforcement is to establish bracero programs which in reality amount to little more than legalized slavery.
  6. by   OB_RN
    I guess you are all assuming I meant ALL patients. Everyone knows there is no such thing as ALL pts, right???

    Whatever. Believe whatever you like. My pts always like me. Thats who I care about.

    Think about it. If you can receive good care in your own country,then why would you come on a long plane trip to come here, to deliver and go home in 6 weeks?

    Those of you who choose to label me (incorrectly I might add) cannot seem to offer any other ideas about why someone would come to have their baby here, when their family, spouse and Dr are all overseas.
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Christian Conservatives willing to trade amnesty for stronger border security and an end to birthright citizenship:

    Immigration debate gets religious-Nation/Politics-The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  8. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from OB_RN
    I guess you are all assuming I meant ALL patients. Everyone knows there is no such thing as ALL pts, right???

    Whatever. Believe whatever you like. My pts always like me. Thats who I care about.

    Think about it. If you can receive good care in your own country,then why would you come on a long plane trip to come here, to deliver and go home in 6 weeks?

    Those of you who choose to label me (incorrectly I might add) cannot seem to offer any other ideas about why someone would come to have their baby here, when their family, spouse and Dr are all overseas.
    Believe whatever I like? Thanks for the permission. That's swell of you.

    The only reason that I believe you consider certain people terrorists is because you said you do. All the back pedaling in the world won't change that.
  9. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Christian Conservatives willing to trade amnesty for stronger border security and an end to birthright citizenship:

    Immigration debate gets religious*-*Nation/Politics*-*The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Simply wrong headed article. The federal government cannot simply "end" birthright citizenship. Congress proposed and the states agreed that citizenship is a birthright that was placed beyond the reach of congress with the ratification of the 14th amendment.
  10. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Simple facts:

    Individual Income accounted for 899 BILLION in tax revenue in 2005

    House Budget Committee - Democrats

    Individual Income accounted for 797 BILLION in tax revenue in 2000

    The Economic and Revenue Effects of Reducing Federal Income Tax Rates by 10 Percent

    As I cited above, the top 50% of Americans pay more than 96% of that bill.

    Net effect of tax cuts: 102 BILLION dollars YEARLY in more taxes paid by the 'rich' within 5 yrs of implementation.

    Simple fact: the 'rich' aren't paying less taxes, but considerably MORE as a result of the 'cuts'.

    By any objective measure, it is an overwhelming measure of success for the poor when the gov't can devise a scheme to make the 'rich' pay not only MORE overall taxes, but the greatest proportion of taxes. That is the net result of President Bush's pro-poor tax policies.

    Reversing that trend would NOT be a pro-poor policy.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Encouraging obscene concentration of wealth through tax cuts is most assuredly not "pro poor." When you really look at the net effect of the Republican tax code it results in concentration of wealth at the very highest ends of the economy. Warren Buffet made this point quite elegantly. He made the point that his secretary paid a higher marginal rate in taxes than he did. Another example, The child tax credit is not fully refundable to the poorest of our society. Making it fully refundable encourages work. EITC tax returns under Bush are subjected to far greater scrutiny than corporate tax returns. A truly pro poor (and middle class) family tax policy would have made that a priority. When tax reform issues came up in the republican congress the emphasis was always on wealth concentration against the interests of the middle class. (See AMT modernization for a very clear illustration.) Each of these decisions was a moral decision and each of them tilted towards the privileged against the broad interests of our society as a whole. I invite you to read Bill Moyers article in the Nation for an analysis of the moral bankruptcy of the conservative movement in its attitude towards the common good.
  11. by   HM2VikingRN
    i think the comment from bill moyers says it all in response to the role of social justice and our society: for america's sake
    everywhere you turn you'll find people who believe they have been written out of the story. everywhere you turn there's a sense of insecurity grounded in a gnawing fear that freedom in america has come to mean the freedom of the rich to get richer even as millions of americans are dumped from the dream.

    daniel yankelovich, reports that a majority want social cohesion and common ground based on pragmatism and compromise, patriotism and diversity. but because of the great disparities in wealth, the "shining city on the hill" has become a gated community whose privileged occupants, surrounded by a moat of money and protected by a political system seduced with cash into subservience, are removed from the common life of the country. the wreckage of this abdication by elites is all around us.

    corporations are shredding the social compact, pensions are disappearing, median incomes are flattening and healthcare costs are soaring. in many ways, the average household is generally worse off today than it was thirty years ago, and the public sector that was a support system and safety net for millions of americans across three generations is in tatters.

    reagan's story of freedom superficially alludes to the founding fathers...still means today, is the freedom to accumulate wealth without social or democratic responsibilities and the license to buy the political system right out from under everyone else, so that democracy no longer has the ability to hold capitalism accountable for the good of the whole.

    at the heart of our experience as a nation is the proposition that each one of us has a right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."... inherent imperative: "inasmuch as the members of a liberal society have a right to basic requirements of human development such as education and a minimum standard of security, they have obligations to each other, mutually and through their government, to ensure that conditions exist enabling every person to have the opportunity for success in life."

    john schwarz, in freedom reclaimed: rediscovering the american vision, rescues the idea of freedom from market cultists whose "particular idea of freedom...has taken us down a terribly mistaken road" toward a political order where "government ends up servicing the powerful and taking from everyone else." the free-market view "cannot provide us with a philosophy we find compelling or meaningful," schwarz writes. nor does it assure the availability of economic opportunity "that is truly adequate to each individual and the status of full legal as well as political equality."

    freedom, he says, is "considerably more than a private value." it is essentially a social idea, which explains why the worship of the free market "fails as a compelling idea in terms of the moral reasoning of freedom itself." let's get back to basics, is schwarz's message. let's recapture our story.

    [garfinkle] the american dream vs. the gospel of wealth, as he describes how america became the first nation on earth to offer an economic vision of opportunity for even the humblest beginner to advance,

    garfinkle writes, than abraham lincoln, who called on the federal government to save the union. he turned to large government expenditures for internal improvements--canals, bridges and railroads. he supported a strong national bank to stabilize the currency. he provided the first major federal funding for education, with the creation of land grant colleges. and he kept close to his heart an abiding concern for the fate of ordinary people, especially the ordinary worker but also the widow and orphan. our greatest president kept his eye on the sparrow. he believed government should be not just "of the people" and "by the people" but "for the people."

    in my time it was fdr, who exposed the false freedom of the aristocratic narrative. he made the simple but obvious point that where once political royalists stalked the land, now economic royalists owned everything standing. mindful of plutarch's warning that "an imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics," roosevelt famously told america, in 1936, that "the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the minute man." ...now came collective bargaining and workplace rules, cash assistance for poor children, social security, the gi bill, home mortgage subsidies, progressive taxation--democratic instruments that checked economic tyranny and helped secure america's great middle class.

    so it is that contrary to what we have heard rhetorically for a generation now, the individualist, greed-driven, free-market ideology is at odds with our history and with what most americans really care about. more and more people agree that growing inequality is bad for the country,...working families and poor communities need and deserve help when the market system fails to generate shared prosperity.

    one story would return america to the days of radical laissez-faire, when there was no social contract and the strong took what they could and the weak were left to forage. the other story joins the memory of struggles that have been waged with the possibility of victories yet to be won, including healthcare for every american and a living wage for every worker.

    we have a story of equal power. it is that the promise of america leaves no one out. go now, and tell it on the mountains. from the rooftops, tell it. from your laptops, tell it. from the street corners and from starbucks, from delis and from diners, tell it. from the workplace and the bookstore, tell it. on campus and at the mall, tell it. tell it at the synagogue, sanctuary and mosque. tell it where you can, when you can and while you can--to every candidate for office, to every talk-show host and pundit, to corporate executives and schoolchildren. tell it--for america's sake.

    please take the time to read this article in its entirety. it tells a story of an america that works together for the common good not just that of the plutocracy.








  12. by   pickledpepperRN
    People become wealthy in this country by using tax supported services. they use our infrastructure more.

    They benefit from the public education that prepared their employees to produce the goods and services that created their wealth.
  13. by   OB_RN
    Quote from mercyteapot
    Believe whatever I like? Thanks for the permission. That's swell of you.

    The only reason that I believe you consider certain people terrorists is because you said you do. All the back pedaling in the world won't change that.

    What I SAID was "we have a terrorist threat here."
    I never called anyone anything.
    YOU did.

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