Colorado - Illegal Immigrants no longer eligble for state health care - page 8

Effective Aug. 1, state services, including the state health plans and welfare, will no longer be given to illegal immigrants in Colorado. This law, enacted by Gov. Bill Owens, in considered the... Read More

  1. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from multicollinarity
    It is crazy living here near the border. The cost of illegal immigration is a epic drain on the state budget.
    Multi........crazy is definately an appropriate word to describe what it's like living here! Although I obviously agree that everybody is entitled to their opinions on immigration, I also believe that someone who lives in Minnesota can't possibly understand the stress, fears, and downright city-wide crisis that we feel every single day as a result of illegal immigration.
  2. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from cardiacrn2006
    i agree 100%!
    to actually demand that we don't call them illegal, to demand better healthcare than the average american receives, to demand that we teach their children in spanish....and to boot, if we didn't give in to their demands they promised to do their best to hurt us finacially!
    doesn't sound like a group of law-abiding citizens that i want to give access to special citizenship.
    there is a process for citizenship-why do illegal mexicans get to demand some sort of special treatment for obtaining it? do people in rwanda get the same treatment? last i checked, there was no genocide in mexico. no, all the mexicans are being killed by the sun in the desert because we allow this beast to get out of control.

    out of curiosity hm2viking, what state do you live in?
    i am not sure that they were demanding better everything than the average us citizen receives. children who are born in the us are citizens by definition. that does entitle them to a free and appropriate public education. (which right to the best of my knowledge is written as a guarantee into the constitution of every state in the us.)

    i am not sure that they were trying to hust us financially in any real long term sense but they were trying to raise awareness of the public at large of the contributions they make to our society. i think that they were really protesting for the right to be treated with dignity and respect which is the same right that we all demand of each other in a civilized society.

    from the minneapolis star tribune:


    not only products, services and investments should be allowed to cross borders but labor as well. recognizing this, the european union approved flows of labor among its members and provided financial support to the less affluent. the result was the correction of income imbalances in greece, ireland, portugal and spain. the lesson is that free trade calls for a committed partnership rather than fleeting enthusiasm.
    illegal immigrants from mexico (an estimated 56 percent of the u.s. total) and the rest of latin america (22 percent are here because they cannot survive with dignity in their countries. given their unique cultural values, they would return home if they could sustain a modest and honest lifestyle.

    latin america has the worst distribution of wealth in the world and lacks the means to bridge it. this reality has cornered the poorest into choosing illegal migration.
    a guest worker program and a reality-based law would be feasible if the magnitude of the problem were manageable. to make it so, jobs must be created across latin america and across its socioeconomic sectors. this can be achieved by giving the north american free trade agreement (nafta) the greater depth of a mutually accountable and committed partnership and, on this model, enacting similar agreements with central and south american nations.
    why should latin america's economy be our responsibility? the gap between the rich and the poor in latin america reached explosive levels through globalization and, in mexico, through the nearsighted implementation of nafta. american government and international corporations spearheaded globalization; with their canadian and mexican counterparts, they enacted nafta while ignoring the millions of mexican poor.
    behind the faade of macroeconomic improvement, small business and farming in mexico were ravaged by the agreement's absence of leveling measures, competition from american and canadian companies and u.s. agricultural subsidies. crony privatization, which gave mexico more billionaires than any european country, added insult to injury. many of the victims of this collateral damage are now living as illegal immigrants in the united states; .

    we have created this problem as a country. its like the pottery barn "if you break it you own it..." i am not advocating illegal immigration. militarizing the border does absolutely nothing to address the root causes of illegal immigration. i am arguing that if we want to fix the problem that we need to be committed to fixing the economic injustices in mexico, central and south america if we want to reduce the number of immigrants coming here. i think that if you look deeper you see the results of unbridled crony capitalism. the tax and spending policies under the current administration (wealth concentration through tax giveaways, declining health and education infrastructure, nonbid crony contracts) are all having the same effects on our own workers that nafta etc. have had on our neighbors to the south. i think that is the real source of the anger being expressed over immigration issues. :wakeneo:

    i have also been speaking to the law of unintended consequences. (if we legally hammer the immigrant parents of children born in the us we are harming our own citizens.) i live in mn and we probably have a greater diversity and concentration of immigrants than almost anywhere else in the us. my wife provides special education services to children of immigrants and she has almost no hispanic students anymore. what i think that this probably represents is the assimilation of hispanic families into our local communities as productive members of society. the students she has are from africa.
  3. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from hm2viking
    i am not sure that they were demanding better everything than the average us citizen receives.



    i am not sure that they were trying to hust us financially in any real long term sense but they were trying to raise awareness of the public at large of the contributions they make to our society. .
    what? please tell me you're joking! the absolutely demanded to get better treatment, and the absolutely threatened us with their boycott and march. they flat out came on tv and threatened to not work, and to not buy anything american, and to do this until they got their demands. maybe you missed the coverage of all the marches???????

    if you didn't know this little bit of information, than you are sadly misinformed about the subject.

    btw, as a result of the boycott (which has been done twice now), the legal mexican-americans lost thousands of dollars. seems like since they illegals mostly work at mexican restaurants, their boycott only hurt themselves.
  4. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from hm2viking
    i live in mn and we probably have a greater diversity and concentration of immigrants than almost anywhere else in the us.
    you've got to be kidding.
  5. by   Multicollinearity
    Minnesota is 86.7% white.

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/27000.html

    Arizona is 61.1% white.

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/04000.html

    In my little corner of the world minorities are the majority:

    http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/143330.php

    So I literally laughed when I read that Minnesota is the most diverse place in the country.
  6. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from multicollinarity
    You've got to be kidding.
    I live in a town of 9000 people in Southern MN. I can walk into our grocery store at any time of day and see people from Africa and South and Central America. Immigrant families are moving into our dying small towns and buying lower cost homes for the purpose of doing what we all do, building lives and starting families.

    Over the past 15 years MN has evolved from a state that was 98% + European to roughly 80% european and 20% other....(These are approximate numbers that represent where the demographic trend is headed if we are not quite there yet.)

    Hispanics are technically as a group classified as "white." (Next time you fill out a demographic questionnaire look at the classification structure...One will be White-Nonhispanic.) I think that if you look at my post that I was speaking to multi-ethnic diversity not just Hispanics versus everyone else. I have been trying to take the high ground in all of my posts. I think what has been missed is that I believe everyone is entitled to civil and human rights (white, black or martian....:>>). Seriously, I think that working towards tolerance and assimilation is one of the steps that we need to take for the people who are already here. Make things better abroad and you will reduce the pressure for people to come here for economic opportunity.
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Aug 26, '06
  7. by   cardiacRN2006
    LOL! I laughed too. I just pulled up a map of the US to get a gander of how much closer the Mexican border is to Minneapolis than Southern Az.......

    Viking, your wife teaches to immigrants? How many of those African children are Illegal? Do they march in your streets? Do they threaten your city, drain your hospitals? Do they proudly fly their flag and then have the American flag upside down beneath it? When was the last African boycott of your city? When was the last time you heard about the 15 who just died in a single car accident? When was the last time you took care of a border crosser near death in your ICU?

    To say that MN is the most racially diverse in the US is beyond laughable! My first thought would be NYC, but what do I know? I'll tell you what I do know though.....I actually DO know what it's like to live in this CRISIS of illegal immigration. I'm not looking up other's stats to justify my opinion, I'm not quoting someone else's newspapers analysis of the situation. I live in the situation.
  8. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from HM2Viking
    I live in a town of 9000 people in Southern MN. I can walk into our grocery store at any time of day and see people from Africa and South and Central America. Immigrant families are moving into our dying small towns and buying lower cost homes for the purpose of doing what we all do, building lives and starting families.

    Ok, fair enough. You just said "MN" in your post. Now I understand you are referring to the demographics within your particular little town.
  9. by   gauge14iv
    Since the one day walkout, if I suspect a business uses illegals as employees - I no longer do business there. That means I gave up my favorite local restaraunt - havn't eaten there once since - and we used to go there 1-2 times a week. Maybe my 20.00 to 40.00 check and tips don't mean much to them, but I know of other people who do the same thing, it adds up.
  10. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from HM2Viking
    Hispanics are technically as a group classified as "white." (Next time you fill out a demographic questionnaire look at the classification structure...One will be White-Nonhispanic.) I think that if you look at my post that I was speaking to multi-ethnic diversity not just Hispanics versus everyone else. I have been trying to take the high ground in all of my posts. I think what has been missed is that I believe everyone is entitled to civil and human rights (white, black or martian....:>>). Seriously, I think that working towards tolerance and assimilation is one of the steps that we need to take for the people who are already here. Make things better abroad and you will reduce the pressure for people to come here for economic opportunity.
    I am aware of this, which is why I quoted figures for "white, not hispanic" from the census figures. You will see this if you click on the links I provided to census data.

    I too believe that everyone is entitled to civil and human rights. I do not believe that enforcing immigration laws and having legal, safe and orderly immigration obliterates that view.

    I don't think you are taking into account that there are certain problems unique to the border. The immigrants in your little city that hail from the other side of the planet are not doing the following: digging drug tunnels and importing massive amounts of drugs, bringing massive amounts of drugs across the border every single day, dying in the desert by the thousands, violent gangs that terrify (google ms-13 and be terrified), destroying ranchers property, increasing crime, shutting down emergency rooms, too many traffic accidents to count caused by 'coyotes' (google that term too) and sucking the state dry with public benefits.
  11. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from HM2Viking
    Seriously, I think that working towards tolerance and assimilation is one of the steps that we need to take for the people who are already here.
    Do you understand that most don't want to assimilate? The fact that they protest for us to teach their children in Spanish is just one example. Do you know how many times I get eyes rolled at me by my pts because I don't speak Spanish? They will actually curse at me in Spanish because I don't speak their language (we all know the curse words). Protesting with our flag being burnt or flown upside down is also another clear sign that some don't wish to assimilate.

    Tolerance was something that we were all trying to do for so long down here. But the marches and boycotts have really put a bad taste in our mouths. There are simply too many complex issues and problems that can't be fixed with mercy and tolerance. Those were used and abused and thrown in our faces.
    Last edit by cardiacRN2006 on Aug 26, '06
  12. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from multicollinarity
    I am aware of this, which is why I quoted figures for "white, not hispanic" from the census figures. You will see this if you click on the links I provided to census data.

    I too believe that everyone is entitled to civil and human rights. I do not believe that enforcing immigration laws and having legal, safe and orderly immigration obliterates that view.

    I don't think you are taking into account that there are certain problems unique to the border. The immigrants in your little city that hail from the other side of the planet are not doing the following: digging drug tunnels and importing massive amounts of drugs, bringing massive amounts of drugs across the border every single day, dying in the desert by the thousands, violent gangs that terrify (google ms-13 and be terrified), destroying ranchers property, increasing crime, shutting down emergency rooms, too many traffic accidents to count caused by 'coyotes' (google that term too) and sucking the state dry with public benefits.
    I absolutely agree that there are problems! I have never tried to discount them. I have tried to say that if we want to really fix this we have to vote our own autocratic and oligarchic rulers out this fall AND fix the problems with NAFTA and CAFTA that have pushed people to try and get to the US for economic survival reasons. (I apologize for not reading the demographic link you provided carefully.)

    What I have also tried to say is that we have immigrant non-citizen parents of families with children (who are citizens by birth) whose children should not be penalized due to their parents mistakes.

    Many of the drug supply activities are driven by poverty and if we find a way to reduce poverty to the south we will also limit the allure of working for the gangs. Law enforcement cannot be the only approach to solving the immigration problem.
  13. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from HM2Viking
    I absolutely agree that there are problems! I have never tried to discount them. I have tried to say that if we want to really fix this we have to vote our own autocratic and oligarchic rulers out this fall AND fix the problems with NAFTA and CAFTA that have pushed people to try and get to the US for economic survival reasons. (I apologize for not reading the demographic link you provided carefully.)

    What I have also tried to say is that we have immigrant non-citizen parents of families with children (who are citizens by birth) whose children should not be penalized due to their parents mistakes.

    Many of the drug supply activities are driven by poverty and if we find a way to reduce poverty to the south we will also limit the allure of working for the gangs. Law enforcement cannot be the only approach to solving the immigration problem.
    Hey, I'm all for voting out the oligarchy we have going on. I'm certainly not a fan of NAFTA and CAFTA. At the same time, I want the border closed to illegal immigration. I want legal, safe, and orderly immigration.

    We can provide some assistance to our neighbors south of the US border. But we didn't create all of their problems, and it's not our responsibility (or ability!) to fix them.

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