Colorado - Illegal Immigrants no longer eligble for state health care - page 11

Effective Aug. 1, state services, including the state health plans and welfare, will no longer be given to illegal immigrants in Colorado. This law, enacted by Gov. Bill Owens, in considered the... Read More

  1. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from arelius
    Last I checked it was illegal to cross the border without permission. The door isn't open, the door is closed but many illegal immigrants decide to open the door one way or another. And just because the door is open doesn't mean you give another person the right to enter.
    But when you turn a blind eye to them coming in, it is an implied consent.

    Tonight . . . 6-8 thousand people will illegally cross our southern border. What will we do about it? Why, give them a job of course.

    It is illegal, but until we CHOOSE to enforce our own laws, the dinner we've set for them and invited them to accept is a clear invitation to the party.

    The history of 8 million others that preceded the immigrant that crosses TONIGHT does imply consent.

    Or, to put it in context, how fast would YOU drive if you knew the highways weren't seriously monitored by police? But, THAT'S ILLEGAL!

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 28, '06
  2. by   charebec65
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA

    There is nothing inherent about our laws that stipulate that a child born on our soil is a citizen. Since their illegal parents are not subject to our legal status, neither should the 'fruit of a forbidden tree' be.

    From the 14th Amendment:

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    That's a two-part test. Being born on our soil as a result of the VIOLATION of our jurisdiction does not or SHOULD NOT meet that burden.

    This two-part test dealt with slavery issues post Civil War and had a specific connotation that does not apply to the children of illegal aliens. The purpose of this two-part test was that: the mere act of legally sanctioning and/or punishing a former slave served, under Constitutional precept, to establish his citizenship and all the rights thereof.

    This provision was designed to enforce gov't recognized citizenship status on all who were born here AND who live under our rule of law. It just isn't on point for someone that is born here by the process of UNDERMINING our rule of law.

    Simply put, it's not simply about the nationality of the land in question, but about the jurisdictional right to be there.

    Congress needs to weigh in on this issue and disabuse HHS of this misinterpretation by regulation. I've said this for years. For the FIRST TIME, in the immigration debate this summer, I've actually heard this concept discussed as a need for Congressional action.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    I like your thinking here Timothy..... Do you have legal training in some respect? Just curious..... I used to be a paralegal...
  3. by   TrudyRN
    Personally, I'd rather see grocery workers make $19 an hour than see some sleazy executive make $30 million a year off of those same grocery workers.

    You're durn tootin'!
  4. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from studentmalenurse
    We need to help these people survive, the fact is they are here to stay, they are not going away, we need to help them many of them are working at wages we would never work for. Take that away from them and the only thing left for them would be to steal in order to survive.
    You've got to be kidding! I have no obligation to help these people survive.

    We need to deport illegal immigrants because they're here unlawfully. Their very presence in the United States is breaking the law.
  5. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from studentmalenurse
    As long as they are working hard and are not performing criminal activity then let them live, if they are destructive then send them back to their country.
    Don't you get it?! Any person who is in this country illegally is, in reality, performing criminal activity because they broke American laws to come here.
  6. by   arelius
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    But when you turn a blind eye to them coming in, it is an implied consent.

    Tonight . . . 6-8 thousand people will illegally cross our southern border. What will we do about it? Why, give them a job of course.

    It is illegal, but until we CHOOSE to enforce our own laws, the dinner we've set for them and invited them to accept is a clear invitation to the party.

    The history of 8 million others that preceded the immigrant that crosses TONIGHT does imply consent.

    Or, to put it in context, how fast would YOU drive if you knew the highways weren't seriously monitored by police? But, THAT'S ILLEGAL!

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    It doesn't matter if the enforcement isn't top notch. The fact is it is illegal to cross the border and those illegals know that. That is why they sometimes hire coyotes, dig tunnels, etc... Just because the enforcement sucks doesn't mean they have a free invitation to the "party". And to be technical, there is a lot of enforcement, just not enough. And it doesn't matter what kind of examples you give because I could turn around and do the same:

    If it's illegal to go into someones house without permission, but the door is open and the police don't enforce that law then I'm sure you wouldn't mind all the people coming into your home?
  7. by   charebec65
    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    That article says that possibly 30% of illegals have forged papers....I believe the percentage is much, much higher.
    I was in my bank a couple of months ago. A Hispanic man was attempting to cash a check at the bank...not putting any in an account. The teller asked for some form of identification. He stated that he had none. However, there was either a state ID or DL from the state of Tennessee in his wallet...... Why lie?
  8. by   charebec65
    Quote from arelius
    Last I checked it was illegal to cross the border without permission. The door isn't open, the door is closed but many illegal immigrants decide to open the door one way or another. And just because the door is open doesn't mean you give another person the right to enter.

    MMMM I wonder what would happen if I crossed the border into Mexico without getting a VISA, or overstaying a VIA, and got caught..?

    If did didn't get caught do you think they would pay me tax free dollars under the table, give me food stamps and free health care?
  9. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from charebec65
    i like your thinking here timothy..... do you have legal training in some respect? just curious..... i used to be a paralegal...
    the supreme court explicitly expanded the 14th amendment in wong kim ark and ruled that being born on american soil makes you an american citizen even if your biological parents are ineligible for citizenship and that government cannot use this as a reason to deny citizenship. the court has revisited this issue on several occasions and not reversed itself. bottom line of the ruling is that us citizenship through birth in the us is a constitutional right. the un declaration of human rights of which our government is a signatory also establishes that all people have a right to a nationality. any attempt of congress to redefine citizenship issues would be subject to court challenge and ruled as unconstitutional by the courts. (arguably there would also be due process violations, cruel and unusual punishment arguments as well as a violation of the ninth and tenth amendment issues relating to reserved rights of the people.)
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Aug 29, '06
  10. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from charebec65
    MMMM I wonder what would happen if I crossed the border into Mexico without getting a VISA, or overstaying a VIA, and got caught..?
    The Mexican government would definitely give you free shelter - in a local jailhouse.
  11. by   TheCommuter
    It's a widespread belief, one reinforced by public officials including President Bush: "Illegal immigrants do the jobs Americans won't do.''

    But it's being challenged in a five-year study that concludes millions of undereducated Americans are without work in a labor market oversaturated by illegal immigrants.
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1601711/posts
  12. by   HM2VikingRN
    If we as a nation want to reduce the numbers of illegal immigrants who are trying to come here we as a nation need to aggressively support the development of democratic institutions in every country south of the border. Part of the impetus for immigration issues is hunger and powerlessness. When people are unable to support their families and their children are hungry they become in effect economic refugees.

    From The Nation:

    Citizens' power is trickier to measure than reducing hunger, but it may well be even more important. When you "forget how to say 'yes, sir' and learn to say 'I think that'"--that is when a "citizen is born," Brazilian MST leader Joo Pedro Stdile stressed to me; and, "like riding a bike," you don't forget.
    The right to eat is a beautiful and simple concept touching our most natural instinct for life in community. But its realization flows from perhaps an even more foundational right--the right to power--which in turn demands a reframing of democracy itself. Much more than a legal structure, democracy vital enough to end hunger is the living practice of citizen power creating strong communities. And it is happening.
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Aug 29, '06
  13. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from TheCommuter
    I know this post is going to be slightly off the subject, but here it is. It would be nice if more illegal immigrants settled in sparsely populated states such as Wyoming or North Dakota to alleviate the 'congestion' that has occurred in the border states of California, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico.

    They congregate where there is work and where they know people, I think.

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