Clock out by 8am or get reprimanded!!!

This will vary state to state.

Here in WA you must pay an employee for any overtime worked, even if not authorized, forbidden, whatever. The only way out of this is if you have locked the employee out of the workplace. Really, my dad and I own a buisiness and have fought L&I on this one before, we lost. But an employer can still fire you for working unathourized overtime, but has to pay the hours anyway.

I agree with every post here. If you work more than your designated shift allotment, you should be paid OT for it. If we get slammed during a shift, we'll stay over as long as necessary, but it's the exception, not the norm. If managers don't want to pay OT, there's a problem.

My question is though, why are so many people working past the clock? We have 59 ICU beds split in three units with a 2:1 ratio and 1 aid per unit, sometimes less. RNs do ALL primary care including baths, turns, empty foleys, chart VS, etc. The aids SOMETIMES help with turning, but they are there mostly to stock linens and be an extra set of hands when pts go awry.

Our hospital practices 24 hour care. If we don't get something done on our shift, the oncoming RN can do it and VERY few b*tch about it. Unless a pt is filthy stinky dirty, we'll skip a bath if we're that FAR behind. If we don't get to a PICC drsg change, oh well... the oncoming will get to it. Our actuities are as high as anywhere given that we're a level 1 trauma facility serving an overall population of about 1 million.

We do all manual paper charting save for the 4 hour rhythm strips which the monitor techs do. Even on a really busy night, we're rarely there past 0730. If we run a code or get an admit, we'll sometimes stay as late as 0800, but that's not often.

For those who are routinely working past the clock, what does your shift consist of that puts you so far behind? I'm not slamming anyone, I'm just really genuinely curious about this because where I'm at, it just doesn't happen as a matter of routine.

Consider yourself very lucky. About 98% of end-of-shift OT is caused by poor staffing ratios combined with endless charting--which isn't done DURING the shift due to time constraints..

I experienced this game in a non-union hospital, when I was a "young" nurse. My manager told me the usual- it was my fault for getting out late. I asked to have staff development work with me on my time management skills. A wonderful nurse educator spent a shift with me. I put in two hours of OT that evening and my manager got off my back. I still got out late most evenings because the staffing was horrible and I quit within two years. The kicker was that the hospital did not pay me OT all the time I clocked out late. Years after I had left that hospital, I got a check for $2000 from them. Some one had reported them to the DOL and they had to pay a settlement to every nurse who had worked there! I learned an important lesson and have worked in union hosptials since then (22 years).

Management holds the nurses hostage because they can fire at will. Once nurses are represented, they have the security to take collective action.

The New York State Nurses Association represents NJ nurses- they have an agreement with NJ that gives nurses membership in both state associations.
http://www.nysna.org/union/organizing.htm

HPAE is also in NJ http://www.hpae.org/historyofhpae.htm


NJ regs for critical care:
§ 8:43G-9.7 Critical care staff time and availability

(a) Nurse staffing shall be determined by the acuity of illness of the patients on the critical care unit.
(b) There shall always be at least one registered professional nurse for every three patients. There shall be the capability to increase nurse staffing to one nurse for every two patients or one nurse per patient based on acuity levels.
(c) There shall be a mechanism in place for the critical care service to have access to nutritional support services for advice on both enteral and parenteral nutritional techniques.

NJ Staffing Legislation: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bi...00/1531_I1.PDF

OK I guess that I may be alone on this one but here goes... Just remember that their are two sides to every story but I am on the other side of the over time situation. You see, I am one of the people that get the overtime list and nasty e-mails from the corporate office when the nursing budget is over time.

If every nurse stays one or two hours overtime each night, do you know how many extra staff you could add to each shift with their overtime?
Sorry.. but Nurses need to hold the nurse that is signing off to you that they have done their job and they need to be ready to give you your shift report when you come in. I work with a lot of nurses that are very poor planners and they wait til the end of the shift to chart instead of doing it while they work. They bring in their breakfast and sit down to eat before they write the CNA's assignments. They are text mess their friends.. I can go on.
While I work with some nurse that are wonderful, I also supervise some that are easy distracted. They dont ask for help when they fall behide.

When I worked for an Nursing Agency, you were paid only for 8 hours and if you were not done, you didnt get paid. I was always done.

Come on, you know that you have worked with nurses that are just slow workers some even goofed off! Perhaps that environment is not for them.
I know that this may not be the popular thought, there is a method to the madness.

dialysis12041999 whilst it is true there are some nurses , that no matter how long there shift was , would never get there work done on time ,they are a minority .
Whilst from the number of threads there are related to overloaded assignments , it is a normal practice to staff to the bare bones , giving no room for the patient crashes that are occuring more frequently , due to the ever increasing acuity of patients . In the past there was some leeway in the assignments enabling the bed side nurses to absorb the deteriorating patient .Now d/t higher acuity ,there is a higher risk of patient deterioration and greater probability of it occuring .
Poor staffing leads inevitably to overtime , if floors were staffed adequately , the nurses who are chronically late would stick out like a sore thumb , staff would in this circunstance understand management taking disciplinary action against them . But whilst nurses are being treated almost as indentured labor , by some employers this tardiness is not seen as unacceptable by bedside nurses as they have or will be there at some point

If you clock out and get into an accident at work, you cannot file a workman's compensation claim because you were not "on the clock".

I am also wondering if there is additional liability for late entry charting that is outside of the "clocked" hours that he nurse has.

It is illegal for employees to work off the clock. Nursing positions that are non-supervisory in nature, the hospital isn't even allowed by law to pay you salary, because of the job description, requires them to pay you by the hour....what kind of jobs that a hospital is required to pay hourly vs salary is not determined by the employer but by the US Department of Labor.

Remember a few years ago, they were trying to get all nursing positions EXEMPT from overtime to allow hospitals to pay everyone a salary????....didn't get through Congress.

At my SNF (where I have 41 residents) they have started having "mandatory inservices" or "meetings" at least once a week at the start of my shift. The shift starts at 3pm, and by the time I attend the meeting, get report, and count meds, it's already 3:30-3:45pm. And they question why I am punching out late!
I feel like knocking on their forehead: "Hello? Is anyone in there??"

I'm no lawyer but I am sure this is illegal. You all get together and whup these evil creatures into shape, i.e., UNIONIZE. And do call the state Labor Board. It cannot be legal to REQUIRE