Clinton unveils new health care plan - page 9

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  1. by   Jolie
    Quote from rigmedic
    It all ultimately comes down to, "Who do you trust more; Big Government or Corporate America?".
    You have done an excellent job of concisely stating our difference of opinion. You put your faith in Big Government and I don't.
  2. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from rigmedic
    it all ultimately comes down to, "who do you trust more; big government or corporate america?". after decades of watching corporate america downsize, rightsize, outsource, create "preexisting conditions", deny coverage, and generally allow their greed to get the best of them, i think most people are ready for a change. it is a rightwing fantasy to suggest that "if only people saved more, all would be well". meanwhile wages are flat, energy and food are going through the roof, and the republicans want to steal social security. the american people have had enough of risk and uncertainty. we need to at least be able to count on the availability of healthcare.
    and social security.

    as to the 75% of benefits figure i quoted we may never reach the trust fund exhaustion date of 2042 as that is an estimated date. a better solution is at http://www.brookings.edu/dybdocroot/...04security.pdf for addressing the very minor disparities of the current system.

    we cannot afford to continue to give 30% of our health care dollars to administrative costs.

    dean baker has an interesting comment:

    “the long-term fiscal problem truly is fundamentally one involving the rate at which health care costs grow and much less about the aging of the population.”
    this is hugely important. the way to deal with scary long-term budget projections is to fix our health care system, not to gut social security and medicare. while aging will impose some additional costs in the future, this is not new; life expectancies have been increasing ever since the united states came into existence. the new threat is a health care system that is projected to consume more than 30 percent of gross domestic product in just over three decades. if health care costs in the united states looked more like those in any other wealthy country, we wouldn’t have to look at scary budget projections.
    source: http://commonsense.ourfuture.org/sto..._deficits?tx=3

    for a visual of the real challenge see:


    look at that gentle slope for social security! you could do that in rockports! mt. medicare and medicaid, by contrast, require climbing gear. as the center for budget and policy priorities explains, "first, medicare is by far the largest contributor to the overall growth in expenditures through 2050 because it bears the full brunt of both demographic changes and health care cost growth (and because it is a bigger part of the federal budget than medicaid). social security contributes less to the growth in expenditures because it is not a health program — its per person costs do not grow faster than the economy."
    source: http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/charts/index.html
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Sep 24, '07
  3. by   fronkey bean
    Quote from Lizstill
    I believe we should band together as a nation and a species and help each others when need is great. We send money to poor nations. Why not help our own disadvantaged? A federally run system with a tax on everyone in exchange for universal care is the best way. If the young, healthy, earners opt out it will weaken the system and the coverage may not be there for them when they decide they need it later. Insurance is the most economical and fair if EVERYONE participates.
    I know this is a little off subject, but the reason we send money to poor nations is b/c they really are POOR. I've been on medical missions in third world countries where the only thing we had to give a lepard attack victim while we stabalized his compound fx for the two hour drive to the nearest medical facility was 60 mg IV Toradol. It worked pretty good though b/c he had never had any pain meds. Another time I started IV flds on a young mother of two w/ a severly infected cut and infused 3 liters before she even started to urinate. A weeks worth of IM PCN (no IV, can't imagine anyone in the states putting up w/ that kind of pain) and we think she was alright. I could recount dozens of similar stories and none of these people "opted out" of insurance, or were under insured or whatever. They just simply had no services any where near them.
    Americans spend so much time griping and moaning about how much more their neighbor, Mr Jones, has that they don't realize we are the global Mr. Jones. If we really want to make things fair we need to send 90% or so of our health care dollars to Africa, Asia and S. America. There is very little room to complain in the US, even the poorest and least insured among us has more medical care than most of the rest of the global population.
  4. by   rigmedic
    For all the warts of "Big Government", and there are many, at least the citizens get a vote in how it runs. Corporate America answers ONLY to the Board of Directors of that particular corporation. Individual shareholders have virtually no say so in how the company is run, let alone a non-shareholder. So, having demonstrated the fact that their greed knows no bounds, Corporate Healthcare's days are numbered.....
  5. by   sharona97
    I'm curious Jolie,

    With your determination on Corporate America being the deciding factor to reject health insurance, would you at your job? Then you would pay completely out of pocket as you have suggested in previous posts?
  6. by   HM2VikingRN
    I have a friend who is a financial analyst for Seagate technologies. His viewpoint from reading the business management literature is that corporate America really wants a universal health care plan as the current non-system is a drain on corporate profits.
  7. by   sharona97
    Quote from Jolie
    You have done an excellent job of concisely stating our difference of opinion. You put your faith in Big Government and I don't.
    Quote from HM2Viking
    I have a friend who is a financial analyst for Seagate technologies. His viewpoint from reading the business management literature is that corporate America really wants a universal health care plan as the current non-system is a drain on corporate profits.
    I can believe that!
  8. by   HM2VikingRN
    poerty is the single greatest predictor of poor health
  9. by   Jolie
    Quote from sharona97
    I'm curious Jolie,

    With your determination on Corporate America being the deciding factor to reject health insurance, would you at your job? Then you would pay completely out of pocket as you have suggested in previous posts?
    I don't understand your question. I don't recommend that anyone reject health insurance that is available to them thru their employment in corporate America or anywhere else. But I do support freedom of choice in financial matters. If an individual doesn't want the insurance their employer offers, I believe they ought to have the right to refuse it, at the risk of their own financial peril.

    The plan that our family has is essentially a catastrophic plan. We have a deductible of several thousand dollars, which we usually don't meet in a given year. We utilize a tax-free healthcare spending account funded by payroll deductions to meet our healthcare expenses up to the point of our deductible. For this coverage, we pay approximately $6000/yr in premiums, in addition to the premiums paid by the employer. The reason our premiums are so high is that we essentially subsidize the insurance plans of lower-paid employees within the company. This is a plan offered by a Fortune 100 corporation, so the notion of high-level employees in corporate America receiving excessive healthcare benefits is a myth, at least in our experience.

    The benefit of a plan such as ours is that approved preventive care is covered at nearly 100%, and that we are able to somewhat control the costs of the non-preventive care that we pay out of pocket by carefully choosing our providers and negotiating fees for service.
  10. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from sharona97
    Thanks for the BLOG.......

    StevieLynn, really like your quote......hmmmmmm.
    Mixed message here . . .you like my quote or you give it a thumbs down?

    It is the goal of the mission organization to which I belong - we go to Vietnam every year to provide medical care.

    steph
  11. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from teeituptom
    That site is so conservative it almost comes off as near racist in nature, the way I see it.

    Tom - I haven't read past the opening page of this site but you said "we" and that just isn't true so thought I'd look for evidence.

    steph:spin:
  12. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from Jolie
    I don't understand your question. I don't recommend that anyone reject health insurance that is available to them thru their employment in corporate America or anywhere else. But I do support freedom of choice in financial matters. If an individual doesn't want the insurance their employer offers, I believe they ought to have the right to refuse it, at the risk of their own financial peril.

    The plan that our family has is essentially a catastrophic plan. We have a deductible of several thousand dollars, which we usually don't meet in a given year. We utilize a tax-free healthcare spending account funded by payroll deductions to meet our healthcare expenses up to the point of our deductible. For this coverage, we pay approximately $6000/yr in premiums, in addition to the premiums paid by the employer. The reason our premiums are so high is that we essentially subsidize the insurance plans of lower-paid employees within the company. This is a plan offered by a Fortune 100 corporation, so the notion of high-level employees in corporate America receiving excessive healthcare benefits is a myth, at least in our experience.

    The benefit of a plan such as ours is that approved preventive care is covered at nearly 100%, and that we are able to somewhat control the costs of the non-preventive care that we pay out of pocket by carefully choosing our providers and negotiating fees for service.
    This is exactly what we'd like to do.


    steph
  13. by   sharona97
    Quote from stevielynn
    Mixed message here . . .you like my quote or you give it a thumbs down?

    It is the goal of the mission organization to which I belong - we go to Vietnam every year to provide medical care.

    steph
    StevieLynn,

    I found it interesting that"we" don't like her expressed and then a biblical psalm concerning "(other") people.

    I personally have a different point of view in the "care" of people, Liking them doesn't factor into wether I provide or give care to the needy or the poor. It's one thing to disagree with someone, and another to dislike them. It appeared you were speaking out of both sides of the mouth. IMP.

    I think it's wonderful you have shared your mission work.

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