Clinton unveils new health care plan - page 3

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  1. by   Jolie
    Quote from teeituptom
    One the overwhelming majority more than 90 % of the young will not voluntarily invest and save towards there future. They are keen only on immediate survival.

    Why should they take self discipline and personal responsibility, they dont want it. They wont institute it, they dont understand and fear it.
    And that's OK with me. Just don't ask me to bail out those who don't take responsibility for themselves. And I won't ask anyone to bail me out if my carefully-planned investments fail.
  2. by   sharona97
    Quote from Jolie
    You have just made my point for me. We don't prohibit people from drinking. We simply hold them responsible for their actions.

    The same should apply to health insurance. If someone chooses not to carry it, s/he should be held responsible for the consequences of that choice. If they remain healthy, they keep the cash to use as they wish. If they utilize expensive healthcare services for which they are not insured, let them pay for it, for the rest of their lives, if need be. We need to loose the mentality that we as a society are responsible for "righting" people's personal choices, or worse yet, that we do them favors by preventing them from making choices in the first place.

    What is destructive to the common good is eliminating competition by implementing a single payor, especially a single government payor.
    What happens when a person "chooses" not to have healthcare and someone in my family becomes seriously ill, and it turns out this person is the host of the presumed illness. I believe it's called preventative healthcare that is in place now so this doesn't happen. I will agree it does happen, due to personal rights, or religious beliefs, may not receive immunizations that are meant to protect us all.:trout:
    Last edit by sharona97 on Sep 19, '07 : Reason: spelling
  3. by   teeituptom
    Quote from Jolie
    And that's OK with me. Just don't ask me to bail out those who don't take responsibility for themselves. And I won't ask anyone to bail me out if my carefully-planned investments fail.
    You know it wont work that way, Its our nature to assist all.
  4. by   sharona97
    Quote from teeituptom
    You know it wont work that way, Its our nature to assist all.
    I know we should want to assist all. My point is okay, you are doing "your" part, and Little Boy X is ill with german measles. And you are pregnant. Then what, if you contract this or something like TB in an adult, who hasn't asked you to bail them out. They are taking their option just as you. This is my concern. Your thoughts?
  5. by   Jolie
    Quote from sharona97
    What happens when a person "chooses" not to have healthcare and someone in my family becomes seriously ill, and it turns out this person is the host of the presumed illness. I believe it's called preventative healthcare that is in place now so this doesn't happen. I will agree it does happen, due to personal rights, or religious beliefs, may not receive immunizations that are meant to protect us all.:trout:

    You answered your own question. People have the right NOT to receive healthcare, regardless of their insurance status. Perhaps you support the government mandating healthcare for all citizens, but that is a separate issue from insurance, and one I hope never comes to pass. God help us all when the government has the power to mandate what healthcare private citizens must receive.
  6. by   Jolie
    Quote from teeituptom
    You know it wont work that way, Its our nature to assist all.
    That may be your nature, but it isn't mine. I won't force my assistance on those who don't want or need it.
  7. by   sharona97
    Quote from Jolie
    You answered your own question. People have the right NOT to receive healthcare, regardless of their insurance status. Perhaps you support the government mandating healthcare for all citizens, but that is a separate issue from insurance, and one I hope never comes to pass. God help us all when the government has the power to mandate what healthcare private citizens must receive.
    So let's say you are exercising this right. How do you get into medical school or nursing school without the needed immunizations?
  8. by   Jolie
    Quote from sharona97
    So let's say you are exercising this right. How do you get into medical school or nursing school without the needed immunizations?
    You meet the requirement, get a waiver, or don't go. It is a matter of personal choice. No one is forcing a needle into your arm, unless you are a member of the military, in which case you have signed away certain rights to self-determination.
  9. by   Kyrshamarks
    WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that a mandate requiring every American to purchase health insurance was the only way to achieve universal health care but she rejected the notion of punitive measures to force individuals into the health care system.
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    "At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed," the presidential candidate said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We're providing incentives and tax credits which we think will be very attractive to the vast majority of Americans."
    She said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview — like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination," but said such details would be worked out through negotiations with Congress.
    This is what we have to look forward to if hilary the commuist clinton gets elected in regards to healthcare.
  10. by   sharona97
    What is wrong with proof of immunization? My point is that preventative health was made to have us healthy. That is why schools require these immunizations starting in infanthood. Is is ok to have a mother or father say no to this? Yes, we irradicated smallpox once. Why should we let it slide now?

    I understand purported diseases that require healthcare more intensly, CHF, uncontrolled diabetes, uncontrolled HTN, irresponsible known aides patients,etc could and maybe should pay for there care. I'm not here to say how. I'll leave that to the Fed/State level and vote for whom I think is most qualified.

    If we have people going around in our society that have TB, meningitis,smallpox, DX's that should be regulated and checked for it is umbrella coverage for the rest of us to stay healty.

    You can have all the money in the world saved for personal medical attention, but until you really get sick to the point of disablement, the blinders come off and you hold people accountable for not complying with the simplest, safetiest ways of prevention.

    I attest to this as I am one of those people who did become sick from a unimmunized patient. Had a near-death experience, and now remain disabled, which begets attention to oneself and the community at large, begets depression, and on it goes.

    All be it I am now in a place where I am able to return to school and then participate with skill in an area that I will be best used it took years and thousands of my own dollars to get me functioning at a decent level to carry on with my life. I pray daily that know one has to go thru such a preventable situation.
  11. by   Jolie
    Quote from sharona97

    I attest to this as I am one of those people who did become sick from a unimmunized patient. Had a near-death experience, and now remain disabled, which begets attention to oneself and the community at large, begets depression, and on it goes.
    I am truly sorry for your situation, but I don't understand how you think government-paid healthcare would have prevented it. No matter who pays for healthcare, our current system allows individuals to refuse it, and I can't imagine the American public accepting any new system that would negate that right of refusal.

    Also, we know that no medication, vaccines included, is 100% safe and effective for everyone. Even if we had 100% immunization rates, there would still be isolated incidents of disease that not even mandatory healthcare could prevent.
    Last edit by Jolie on Sep 20, '07
  12. by   sharona97
    Thanks Joli
    Exactly one of my points. This is America, taxes are mandated, laws are mandated. Why not healthcare?
  13. by   banditrn
    Quote from Jolie
    The truth is that one can invest his/her own money in an FDIC insured savings account (an investment with the lowest return, due to the federal guarantee of funds) and still fare better than the return on Social Security. There is no need to purchase "risky" investment to outdo the government's track record. By investing a portion of one's money in federally-insured products, and a small amount in various higher-risk non-insured products, anyone can far out-pace the government's return, regardless of market conditions. The key is self-discipline and personal responsibility, something the government does NOT encourage. Politicians would rather convince you that you need to rely on them than support your efforts to provide for yourself.
    Jolie - another point about private investments vs. SS. If a person works their entire life, and dies at say, 64, that money is gone - zip - nothing left to pass on to their heirs.
    And say they have a 60 yo wife - and she dies before she can collect widows benefits - all the money that person put in over the years is gone - government isn't going to give ANY of it back.

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