Cheney would "probably be dead by now" if not for his federally funded health care - page 10

December 7, 2007, 2:58 pm Nurses' Health-Care Ad Takes Aim at Cheney Susan Davis reports on health care. Vice President Dick Cheney would "probably be dead by now" if not for his federally... Read More

  1. by   HM2VikingRN


    Countries with UHC plans have better outcome measures and spend less.
  2. by   HM2VikingRN


    The desire for "choice" is overstated...
  3. by   pickledpepperRN
    Like many critical care nurses I've cared for many people who had symptoms but for financial reasons did not seek help.
    Undiagnosed HTN, DM, and cancer symptoms.
    60 year olds with GIB in the ER with no preventative care at all.

    Too many die. It could have been prevented with a mammogram, colonosctomy, or someone taking vital signs.
    One 50 something man said, "I didn't do the free blood pressure test at the farmers market because I didn't want to know." He claimed his kids came first and he didn't think he could afford going to the doctor and filling prescriptions. He is now a dialysis patient.

    I am concerned that IF we somehow magically eliminated health insurance and made any government interference or assistance illegal ( eliminated Medicare too) that more people would choose not to avail themselved of health care.
    Or like the man in the ER would refuse a test such as an EKG for financial reasons not religious or philosophical reasons.
    Denial is more common than not in many illnesses.
    Last edit by pickledpepperRN on Dec 18, '07
  4. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from spacenurse
    Denial is more common than not in many illnesses.
    Doesn't even have to be an illness! When I was pregnant, my insurance at the time refused to pay for the ultrasound (anatomy & dates, the only one I had) until I kicked up quite a bit of sand about it.
  5. by   ukstudent
    Quote from spacenurse
    I am concerned that IF we somehow magically eliminated health insurance and made any government interference or assistance illegal ( eliminated Medicare too) that more people would choose not to avail themselved of health care.
    Or like the man in the ER would refuse a test such as an EKG for financial reasons not religious or philosophical reasons.
    Denial is more common than not in many illnesses.
    Thank you for responding. You didn't think that nurses would stop being advocates! Your worried about patients not having medical care due to money. However, as someone from the UK I know many people with free access to health care that NEVER go to the doctors. Denial is a human condition and is less effected by money than you think. Unless part of the plan is to mandate that people have to be tested and get yearly physicals you will still have the untreated hypertension, 60 year old GIB.
  6. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from ukstudent
    Unless part of the plan is to mandate that people have to be tested and get yearly physicals you will still have the untreated hypertension, 60 year old GIB.
    I think what spacenurse is getting at is that if someone doesn't get healthcare, it would be because they choose not to. That's way different than them not getting it because they have to choose between a doctor bill and buying groceries. The end result both may be the same, but my guess is that the latter will happen less frequently. Please correct me if I'm wrong, space.
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from spacenurse
    Like many critical care nurses I've cared for many people who had symptoms but for financial reasons did not seek help.
    Undiagnosed HTN, DM, and cancer symptoms.
    60 year olds with GIB in the ER with no preventative care at all.

    Too many die. It could have been prevented with a mammogram, colonosctomy, or someone taking vital signs.
    One 50 something man said, "I didn't do the free blood pressure test at the farmers market because I didn't want to know." He claimed his kids came first and he didn't think he could afford going to the doctor and filling prescriptions. He is now a dialysis patient.

    I am concerned that IF we somehow magically eliminated health insurance and made any government interference or assistance illegal ( eliminated Medicare too) that more people would choose not to avail themselved of health care.
    Or like the man in the ER would refuse a test such as an EKG for financial reasons not religious or philosophical reasons.
    Denial is more common than not in many illnesses.
    And people won't be in denial if it's free? Your issue here is moot to the point, in the main.

    Nobody is advocating eliminating health insurance. It is saving my pocketbook, at the moment. What is being advocated is eliminating the gov't's hand on the scales that has turned 'insurance' into pre-paid healthcare that nobody can afford unless you get into bed with your employer and the gov't and its lobbyists. Everybody is a winner under that scenario but the end-user: you.

    What is WRONG with health insurance today is that the gov't's interference has made it unaffordable, causing people of simple means to not take their blood pressure, for fear of the cost.

    Make it affordable and health care will do the most, for the most people. Gov't cannot make health care affordable. IT IS THE REASON it is unaffordable now. That's no accident. Health Care is INTENDED to be unaffordable so that you have to access it the way the gov't (and its lobbyists) want you to. You are being effectively priced out of the market. On purpose.

    The gov'ts current hand on the scale is why everybody is worried about the cost of healthcare AND why 47 million Americans are uninsured. The gov't wants total control for its lobbyists and pricing the average person out of the market is a way to get calls for such action. It's purposeful, and deceitful.

    As if the gov't were your friend.

    It is also unnecessary.

    The free market would solve this problem. The gov't? The gov't is the cause; they cannot also be the solution.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  8. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from Arwen_U
    I think what spacenurse is getting at is that if someone doesn't get healthcare, it would be because they choose not to. That's way different than them not getting it because they have to choose between a doctor bill and buying groceries. The end result both may be the same, but my guess is that the latter will happen less frequently. Please correct me if I'm wrong, space.
    You are right.
    I do hope to work on encouraging/educating people about their health. I think THAT should be the main focus of health education starting with kindergarten. Teach kids to wash their hands and all.
    I imagine it would be hard for teachers to teach preventative medicine to kids whose parents can't afford healthcare. Even if the kids get it through Medicaid or S-CHIP.

    Also studies have shown that married men live longer than single men. Part of the reason is that wives encourage them to eat right and to visit the doctor.

    We now have public service ads describing the signs of a stroke telling people to get to a hospital STAT.
    What other information should be advertised to people?

    Blue Cross began when Baylor made a deal with the teachers of Dallas that if they all paid a small amount every month then if they needed hospitalization they could go to baylor free of hospital bills.
  9. by   HeyJude
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    As if the gov't were your friend.
    You mean it wasn't my friend when it gave me the right to vote??
  10. by   graysonret
    Some people haven't taken a serious look at socialized healthcare in other countries. I guess they assume, somehow, it's going to be different here. Nothing like having a bunch of politicians, looking for votes and power, and bureaucrats, interested only in finishing their day, managing healthcare. Good thing we have private healthcare here; Canadians would have nowhere to go for their healthcare. India likes the British socialism, I found. Thousands of Brits are going there for surgery. Nothing like a 6 month wait for a specialist and up to a year for surgery. Sounds like a much better plan than what my patients are getting today. /sarc
  11. by   HM2VikingRN


    On a population basis the UHC systems are doing much better than our system.

  12. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from graysonret
    Some people haven't taken a serious look at socialized healthcare in other countries. I guess they assume, somehow, it's going to be different here. Nothing like having a bunch of politicians, looking for votes and power, and bureaucrats, interested only in finishing their day, managing healthcare. Good thing we have private healthcare here; Canadians would have nowhere to go for their healthcare. India likes the British socialism, I found. Thousands of Brits are going there for surgery. Nothing like a 6 month wait for a specialist and up to a year for surgery. Sounds like a much better plan than what my patients are getting today. /sarc
    I don't think the data supports your assertion about waiting times....



    Waiting times tend to be lower everywhere else in the world....



    This reflects a lack of urgent cares and/or telelphone support systems for patients.


    The US has more cost related access problems...


    1/3 Americans think our system needs a complete rebuild:
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Dec 19, '07
  13. by   mscsrjhm
    Regarding affordable healthplans/insurance, someone help me here- because my math isn't adding up.
    'Sally', a CNA working LTC makes 8$/hour, healthplan is 400$/monthly...(okay, this is a no-brainer)-'Sally' cannot afford the plan. ER visits become her healthplan-expensive testing for neglected ailments. She cannot afford the testing, costs are swallowed by facility-passed onto other consumers-raising costs of care at that facility.
    'Sue', an RN making 35$/hour pays 500$/monthly for health insurance. $6000/year. A dependent has a chronic condition-racking up very large bills-easily upwards of 50,000$ yearly. (No profit there for insurance company.)
    Medical advancement costs money-raising costs of testing, creating new-very expensive equipmentfor better dx and treatment-these are also passed onto consumers.
    How is health insurance profitable?
    Could someone help a simple woman understand this not so simple dilema?
    Also, regarding the waiting time for Physician visits and/or treatment/surgery in countries with socialized medicine...
    Patients were able to see a Physician and eventually receive treatment--100% more health care than millions of people on this planet get.

    Mschrisco

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