ANA membership - page 2

I would like your input and opinions. What do you think about membership in the ANA? Advantages? Disadvantages?:confused:... Read More

  1. by   wildtime88
    wash your hands,

    How were you personally contacted with the issue of increasing dues and also salaries of the ANA leadership?

    Did you have a chance to cast a personal vote for or against the issue?

    Who ultimately decides which issues are the most important and most logical to pursue first?

    Can you explain what was meant when another member said that compromise and bargaining is what the ANA does best when talking about delegate assemblies? This leads one to believe that there are concessions made in which might not actually favor bedside nurses in order to get things passed. What is bad about this is the fact that the majority of the nursing profession is made up of bedside nurses.
  2. by   -jt
    Save your breath, Linda.

    He is on a mission and will not believe one word any ANA member says on anything. He refuses to believe that ALL of the resolutions are written by the nurse members, or that we vote on everything. He wont accept that the majority of the ANA members ARE bedside nurses and he continues to block out the fact that it is the RNs who decide what the agenda is going to be. You did an excellent job of explaining but he'll cant accept any of it.

    He doesnt believe we actually have a say in what our organization does and he's rejected all invitations to come and see for himself - the latest one being a rejection to the invitation to observe at convention in Philly in June. And he refuses to understand the concept of the structure of the House of Representatives in Congress, which the structure of the ANA is based on. Of course, not being in that organization or knowing anything about it, he knows better than us who are actually there, how we work it. Or so he thinks.

    Will he ever believe that we actually voted to raise our own dues & did so ourselves for services that we want to provide ourselves? Or that we were even informed of the issues? No.

    If we had voted "no" on the dues increase, there would have been no dues increase. But we voted "yes". Nobody did that to us. We choose to do that. He just cant believe it.

    He has many questions which show he doesnt understand or know anything at all about the organization. Now he doesnt even understand the meaning of the word debate and compromise - as in "working together", but he can come to Philly & watch it happen & get his questions answered. He just doesnt want the real answers. Hes happy to have people thinking his interpretations are fact. Look at that poor other poster who thinks that the ANA is against unions just because he said it is. lol!!

    When in reality the ANA is a strong supporter of unions (collective bargaining) for nurses, is affiliated with our national labor union of nurses - the UAN - and states on its own website that: Collective Bargaining is a nurses PROFESSIONAL IMPERATIVE.

    But youre right - he's entitled to his own opinion & I think he enjoys misleading people on this subject. The more the merrier.
    Last edit by -jt on Dec 23, '01
  3. by   wildtime88
    "He is on a mission and will not believe one word any ANA member says on anything. He refuses to believe that ALL of the resolutions are written by the nurse members, or that we vote on everything. He wont accept that the majority of the ANA members ARE bedside nurses and he continues to block out the fact that it is the RNs who decide what the agenda is going to be. You did an excellent job of explaining but he'll cant accept any of it."

    JT this is in direct contradiction to what wash your hands said. She has stated that she has only directly voted once a year.

    Jt you just do not get it. You are doing more to hurt your cause than I could ever do. I was asking specific questions and was getting very good answers, then you jump in and start jumping up and down. I do not want to belong to any organization filled with JTs. Do you even have a clue how many people you are personally turning away?

    The way you broadcast, if someone does not agree 100% with the ANA or the union, then they are not worthy of a membership or deserve to have it taken away. Like I said on another post, I have worked under people like you and you would be great in management putting forth the company line no matter what the company did wrong.

    The chances of turning the ANA into something better is a long shot with people like you around.
    Last edit by wildtime88 on Dec 23, '01
  4. by   -jt
    <They are against nurses being represented by Unions (striking when necessary)>


    Wherever you got that idea, you have been misinformed, or misled.

    The truth is to be found on the ANA website in their own statements and I can tell you from experience that they back up this statement, have been on our strike lines, have held protest demonstrations at the major scab agency in colorado ( and were the only nurses organization ever to do so) and have even been arrested with striking nurses to send a message to the hospital and the public. Where you got the idea the ANA is against strikes is not to hard to figure out, but if you had been at the ANA convention in DC last June where the nurses who had been on strike in Ohio and Minnesota this year were honored, or if you had checked that information you were given, you would have been surprised to find a very different actuality than what you thought:

    Let me clear it up once and for all with the following directly from the ANA Website - Collective Bargaining Page:

    "Collective Bargaining is a Professional Imperative -

    One of the primary responsibilities of all professional nurses is to advocate for safe quality care for patients. Steps nurses can take to insure quality patient care include:

    Participate in workplace decisions affecting nursing care.
    Acquire the resources needed to perform your job effectively.
    Safeguard the standards of practice set by the profession.
    Protect employment rights and secure terms and conditions of employment to attract and retain qualified personnel.
    Advocating for quality care is becoming increasingly difficult for nurses in today's environment of restructuring and mergers, where cost often comes before quality care.

    Many nurses find that working collectively, through a contract, to ensure a voice in the workplace is one of the most effective ways to protect themselves, their profession, and their patients.

    Collective bargaining is THE most effective way you and your nurse colleagues can protect patients from inadequate and unsafe care.

    Collective bargaining IS professional. Nurses have a legal right to use the collective bargaining process to protect their professionalism.

    ANA, in its capacity as a union and professional association of nurses provides the most effective representation for the profession. No other union has ANA's experience or depth in addressing the important unique needs of nurses.

    What Are the Benefits of Collective Bargaining?

    Benefits of collective bargaining are embedded in having a mutually agreed upon, legally binding contract between your employer and your bargaining unit that gives nurses a voice in decision-making. The contract prevents arbitrary decisions by the employer and enforces your right to participate in determining wages, hours of work, standards of practice, pension and benefits, and all other terms of employment.

    ANA believes that the professional nurse has the right to participate in the decision-making process affecting the nurse as an employee and as a professional. Wages, benefits and conditions of employment have a major impact upon the quality of care the nurse delivers. Since the nurse is accountable to the client for the care received, each nurse has the obligation to establish the means to effectively influence and implement the standards of care within the employment setting and to ensure employment conditions which permit delivery of the highest quality of nursing care.

    Collective bargaining allows nurses to address the most important issues facing nurses today and to protect themselves. Through collective bargaining, SNAs have achieved more success than any other union or professional association in addressing important issues unique to nurses, like:

    staffing
    professional development
    health and safety
    job security
    professional practice and quality of care
    restructuring
    mandatory overtime
    wages and benefits

    Through CMA bargaining units, nurses are able to:

    Improve wages by negotiating significant pay increases, innovative bonus systems, increases in differential pay, and additional steps on the pay scale.
    Expand benefits, including disability coverage and pension plans.
    Foster professional growth and development through provisions for in-service training, tuition reimbursement, and educational leave.
    Enhance the quality of patient care through the creation of practice councils, labor management committees, and other special focus groups.
    How to Organize

    It Starts with You!

    If you want a voice in the decisions that affect your professional practice and the quality of care you provide, then you need to be at the table where these decisions are made. This is difficult to do as an individual nurse, but nurses can build a collective voice and collective power to negotiate their priorities. Nurses can have a seat at the table through collective bargaining. Organizing is a process that takes time and expertise. That is what ANA and the Constituent Member State Nurses Associations can offer you.

    You'll Have Support:

    ANA and your SNA will listen to the concerns of nurses at your facility and help pinpoint those issues that most need to be addressed. Your SNA will help launch an effective campaign to organize nurses and will provide support and guidance throughout the process. ANA provides field organizers and other resources to work with the SNA. Once the election process is completed, the SNA will negotiate a contract reflective of your priorities and concerns.

    If you and your colleagues need the security and benefits of collective bargaining, please contact your Constituent Member State Nurses Association or ANA with your name, address, telephone number, and e-mail address.
    All information will be kept strictly confidential....... >>>>>>>>


    http://www.nursingworld.org
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ok, all clear? ANA is FOR nurses unionizing. ANA SUPPORTS nurses striking.
  5. by   -jt
    <I was asking specific questions and was getting very good answers, then you jump in and start jumping up and down. I do not want to belong to any organization filled with JTs. Do you even have a clue how many people you are personally turning away?>


    #1 I was not speaking to you.

    #2 Do I need your permission to post here?

    #3 Do you not see what you yourself look like thread after thread?

    #4 I am not recruiting anybody so I dont care who goes where - I am correcting the misinformation you are spewing in your crusade here. And I see that thats getting to you

    otherwise you would be able to just stick to the issues.


    <She has stated she has only directly voted once a year>

    She said quite a bit more than that - All the parts you will ignore to fit your agenda:

    "SNA delegates are sent to the National ANA convention to vote for or against issues. SNA delegates do not have carte blanche. The SNA has an annual convention where the general membership can vote on issues that are on the agenda. The delegates take that position with them and vote accordingly in the ANA House of delegates"



    BTW, how many times have you voted on all the things your representatives have voted on in Congress this year? Do you know how the House of Representatives works in DC?

    Can you have an intelligent conversation on the issues without having to scrape the bottom of the barrel for an argument?
    Last edit by -jt on Dec 23, '01
  6. by   wildtime88
    JT, would you like me to send you my license for disagreeing with you and the ANA 100%? That is exactly how you come across.

    Guess what, it will never happen. But the way you go on sometimes that is exactly what I am afraid of. I am afraid that one day that you or someone like you will push for exactly that.


    Before that happens I will move to California where they as a state association booted out the ANA. They have been dealing with the very same problems and have came up with a logical process on how to deal with them. First they focused on fixing the problems without pushing for legislation to replace the nurses. They are light years ahead of the ANA. The ANA could learn a few things from them, but it is nurses like you that will keep that from happening.

    And excuse me but you were talking to me or at least talking about me. In my book that is the same thing. Is this how you act on the floor. I have worked with people like that too. They go around talking about people behind their back and then smile to them in their face. At least I can tell you are not smiling.

    Jt, I am not scraping the bottom of the barrel, but if you want me to I can.
    Last edit by wildtime88 on Dec 23, '01
  7. by   nurs4kids
    Wildtime, In an attempt to stop this endless BS, I am going to do you a favor...just do as I say:

    Wildtime, watch this little pendelum as I slowly dangle it back and forth in front of your face...concentrate on my every word, repeating it to yourself..slowly, quietly..absorb my every word..

    "I, wildtime, will not question anything about the ANA. I will take every word an ANA member says as law, I will cherish these words as I do those of my saviour. If I do not understand, I will not show my ignorance by asking questions, I will just nod and say "yes" or whatever the ANA Gods tell me to say. I will ignore any obvious misrepresentation as though it doesn't exsist. I KNOW I'm not in the ANA click, so I will always be looked upon as a mere pheasant by the ANA Gods; I deserve no more. I resign my right to debate on this BB in regards to the ANA, because due to my humanistic flaws, I may not say what the ANA Gods would have me say. I will come to support the ANA as a bedside nurse, regardless of it's impact (or lack thereof) for bedside nursing. By doing all these things, I will maintain peace with the ANA Gods AND allow the nursing profession to continue it's downhill spiral of the past hundred years. I will do all these things as a good nurse should and because I am uneducated and ignorant and can't debate with the elite."

    When I snap my fingers, you will awaken. You will no longer have any doubts about the ANA. You will accept every POSITIVE word about the ANA and you will deny anything negative.
    <poof>

    The following was added 1-7-02:
    ***please note***
    After researching the ANA's activities myself, rather than accept other's opinions, I changed my stand. Please view this thread with a grain of salt and do your own research on the ANA before reaching a decision.
    Last edit by nurs4kids on Jan 7, '02
  8. by   wildtime88
    Yes, master.

    "poof"

    God I feel better, but where is my wallet.

    Why haven't I had a raise in years? Where did all the experienced nurses go? Who are all these new grads? Why haven't things changed all that much?

    The ANA is good.
  9. by   nurs4kids
    just keep paying your dues..don't ask questions. there's promise of a better future...

    the "members" voted it'd be better if the ANA Gods held your wallet, you're incapable of managing your own career, let alone your money. The new grads cost less, honey..be patient, give them a few years, they'll get the experience....eventually. Things HAVE changed, you just have to look for them: You've been replaced with inexperience. We're now using CNA's where there used to be experienced nurses. They cost very little and the hospitals are able to send more money to our cause. The ANA president just bought her third home..oh, oops..disregard that last line, uh, oh yeah, you DID get a raise..it's not our fault you got 2% and cost of living went up 5%! However, just look, the advanced practice nurses got a whopping raise as a result of our latest lobbying effort; we've gone a long way in getting government to recognize their importance over that of the bedside nurse. Of course, anything you may perceive as negative is NOT the fault of the ANA, blame that on someone else. However, we take full credit for any positive change for the bedside nurse.

    Now, that's enough questions!!! Go empty that bedpan


    The following was added 1-7-02:
    ***please note***
    After researching the ANA's activities myself, rather than accept other's opinions, I changed my stand. Please view this thread with a grain of salt and do your own research on the ANA before reaching a decision.

    Last edit by nurs4kids on Jan 7, '02
  10. by   december
    Wildtime88 and nurse4kids,

    I would like a reason not to unionize or join ANA and am hoping you can provide a historical lesson of the successes of nurses in this country that have not. Surely there are instances of nonunionized/nonANA nurses making an impact on our profession. Afterall, most of the nurses in this country are not members and never have been. So if I were to look to these over 2 million nurses for guidance, because it is this faction that is responsible for nursing and it's image, where would you suggest I find hope for change. Is there an independent group or person that embodies this?

    As you say, nursing will continue it's downward spiral, but I'm wondering why you blame it on a very small association instead of the overwhelming majority of nurses. I just don't get where you're coming from. What are the solutions to change for you and have they been shown to work, from past experience? What do the bedside nurses do to bring about change, other than resign, at nonunionized hospitals?

    Thanks for any information.
  11. by   nurs4kids
    December,
    I've written to several unionized and non-unionized hospitals in various areas of the US. I've requested salary, benefits packages and costs and nurse/patient ratios. Just as soon as I receive this info IN WRITING, I will scan it and show you the "pudding". It's not so much that non-union and/or non-ana has done MORE, but they've managed to do just as much..without the added costs. Perhaps you'd like to offer us some proof that the ANA has benefited the bedside nurse?? The sad thing here is that because someone asks questions of the ANA and unions, they are attacked as being ignorant. "Ignorant" to me is totally the opposite. Ignorant would be sending my hard earned money to the ANA without proof of some benefit to me as the bedside nurse. I KNOW in my area, the ANA is pathetic. I once belonged, for a year. What did I ever receive? Nothing but a subscription to a magazine. I never received ANY information about what the ANA was doing/voting/etc. Don't give me the hogwash about being active. Most nurses work a full-time job, raise kids and have other things to worry with; sending costly dues to the ANA should at least BUY those nurses some benefits and leverage without having to volunteer too. If everyone needs to volunteer, then why do we need to send dues???



    The following was added 1-7-02:
    ***please note***
    After researching the ANA's activities myself, rather than accept other's opinions, I changed my stand. Please view this thread with a grain of salt and do your own research on the ANA before reaching a decision.
    Last edit by nurs4kids on Jan 7, '02
  12. by   wildtime88
    December,

    First of all , I have always said that it was the nursing profession as a whole who were to blame for allowing things to get so bad. Nurses may not have been the ones who actually made the decisions that have led us here, but we are the ones who agreed to them.

    As for a group of independent nurses, who are actually raising the bar, there are many. They are usually known as agency nurses. These are experienced nurses who have said that I am worth more money and in many cases say I will not work under the conditions that are being offered. Many of these nurses refuse to work for LTCs and hospitals or individual areas in a hospital where they are not treated with respect. Many refuse to go into areas that are notoriously understaffed by choice of the management or administration. If you treat an agency nurse like a dog, then they simply will not go back for more. When word gets around that you can not get agency nurses to work because of the conditions imposed then changes start to occur sooner or later as more and more of the regular staff get fed up and start to leave.

    Another independent group of nurses who succeeded in raising the bar was all the nurses who just got fed up and walked away all together. They succeeded in causing a relative nursing shortage by which many gains are just starting to emerge today. There are still nurses who are following them today, but because of their silent but effective protest they have given many nurses a reason to sit on the fence and hold on as things start to change. Now the ANA in all its wisdom is pushing for legislation that will replace them before change has actually resulted. The ANA is giving the CEOs and others a reason to hold out and not have to work as hard not to retain the nurses they now have. If the ANA has its way there will soon be a mass amount of new nurses under financial obligation and penalty to choose from as replacements. Very soon employers will not have to bargain with nurses under a cloud of a shortage in order to attract nurses. The federal government will be supplying all they need to replace the nurses who leave.

    The nurses in California who booted out the ANA from their state nursing association have done things much differently. They pursued and still are which are tackling the mandatory OT issue and they have even been successful in getting a mandatory staffing law passed which will soon be implemented. They did not push for legislation to replace nurses and thus loose their bargaining power. I do not have the figures but I bet that their association membership has risen since they cut ties with the ANA. This is what good leadership and a logical approach to a problem can result in. In California they focused their efforts on the majority and the backbone of the nursing profession and every nurse is benefiting. They have become very proactive and not just reactive in their approach. The ANA has seen this group as a threat, instead of following their example they intend to do things their way. They have seen fit to follow the shotgun effect by blasting everything in sight at the same time instead of taking the time to tackle one issue at a time to get the most benefit.

    As for unions, this is all well and good if you can not or as a group unwilling to speak for yourselves. You will find an interesting post about a nonunion hospital under the union poll in the other section of this bulletin board. A union is a great place for an individual nurse if you want to be grouped as one entity. If you are an average or even under achiever, then this is the perfect situation for you. If you are an above average achiever and want to have special consideration and rewards for your work, then this in many instances is not the place for you. You will not get any extra raises or a larger raise than those you work with. You will not get any special consideration for time off for staying late or doing special projects. Pure and simple seniority will dictate much of what happens in your work life. This is a hard pill to swallow when someone who is known to lazy and only does the minimum to get by is put ahead of you simply because of more time put in. In other words, individualism in many cases goes right out the window and everyone is put into the very same pot in many respects. As I said this is perfect for the average person and even better for the less than average person. The labor union mentality does not settle well with many nurses. We could use the power of the nursing shortage as a way to come up with a hybrid to satisfy all, but we already know where the ANA stands on the nursing shortage and how they are pushing for legislation to replace nurses who are looking for change. That might not have been their intent, but it will soon be the reality.

    """poof""""

    "The ANA is good."
  13. by   WashYaHands
    pbrn,

    I tried to answer your question as best I could, I'm only sorry that the discussion turned ugly. As far as disadvantages of ANA membership, as you can see, you will be chastised by some of your peers for your choice to join. Membership is a personal choice that unfortunately at times might need to be defended.

    The sad thing here is that because someone asks questions of the ANA and unions, they are attacked as being ignorant. "Ignorant" to me is totally the opposite. Ignorant would be sending my hard earned money to the ANA without proof of some benefit to me as the bedside nurse.
    I have never called anyone or insinuated that anyone was ignorant in any topic that is discussed on this web site. Debate is one thing, name calling and personal attacks are another. My contribution to this thread is over.

    Linda

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