All NY State ADN's and Students

Nurses Activism

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first, let me say that i am not trying to drum up a debate between adn vs. bsn, etc. we have other threads for that. i just wanted to make everyone aware of what is going on and being proposed in ny state. i think we should all band together and make our voices heard. while i am planning on going on to get my bsn eventually, things happen and while i am planning on leaving ny state after i graduate, again things happen. i think it is important that we stand up for ourselves (those of us that feel this is wrong).

http://www.nysna.org/departments/communications/publications/report/2004/may/initiative.htm

report: may 2004

state nursing board proposes 'advancement of the profession' initiative

by nancy j. webber

the new york state board for nursing (sbfn) recently agreed to recommend to the state board of regents that registered nurses with diploma or associate degrees be required to attain bachelor's degrees in nursing within 10 years of their licensure.

the requirement would apply only to rns and nursing students who enter practice after the measure is enacted - all currently practicing rns and nursing students would be exempted.

the "advancement of the profession" initiative was passed unanimously by the sbfn at its december 2003 meeting. the proposal has not yet been presented to the board of regents and there is no specific time frame for this to happen.

"we are gathering information at this stage," said darlene mccown, chair of the sbfn. "we want to make sure that all new york rns understand this proposal and how it will affect nurses in the future. we want the whole profession to benefit."

some frequently asked questions about the sbfn proposal:

is this the same as previous proposals to require rns to have bachelor's degrees in order to enter nursing practice?

no. individuals would still be able to earn associate or diploma degrees as their basic professional nursing education. once licensed, they would be fully qualified rns. this plan preserves both associate degree and baccalaureate nursing education.

would this create two levels of nurses?

no. all licensed rns would be able to practice the full scope of rn practice. but a bachelor's degree does have some advantages. currently, rns with bachelor's in nursing degrees are able to advance to higher levels of responsibility within their own facilities, apply for federal positions, and work in certain specialties such as public health.

what would happen to rns who are ad graduates and do not complete a bachelor's degree within the time frame?

this aspect of the proposal is still under discussion. one idea is that their rn licenses would be considered to be "inactive," meaning they could not practice as rns until they had attained their bachelor's degrees. this would not involve any disciplinary action. an rn with an inactive license could apply for an lpn license during this period.

why is this proposal being made at this time?

the sbfn points to a statewide survey released last year, which revealed more than 60% of new york registered nurses entering the workforce are educated at the ad level. this is in sharp contrast to the recommendation by the national advisory council on nurse education and practice that at least two thirds of the nurse workforce should have baccalaureate or higher degrees by the year 2010. this recommendation was made because of the increasing complexity of health care and nursing practice.

how would a nurse with an associate degree afford a bachelor's degree?

to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, it's estimated that an rn would have to take about two courses a year. the sbfn expects that there would be an increase in rn-to-bsn "completion" programs to meet this need. there are efforts underway to make these programs easily accessible for rns across the state. public funds might be available (such as the federal nurse reinvestment act) and employers would be motivated to sponsor courses to make sure rns working for them will maintain active rn licenses.

the "two-step" path to a bachelor's degree is fairly common. the sed survey found that 21% of rns with associate degrees had advanced to bachelor's degrees and 9% went on to master's degrees. about 30% of the state's rns now hold associate degrees as their highest nursing degree. of these, more than 35% are considering advancing their education.

what will the next step be?

the proposal is being discussed with many groups, such as the nysna board of directors, nursing specialty organizations, and nursing schools. the nysna board of directors supports the concept of this proposal as a way of strengthening the profession through additional education.

"this plan has been put out for discussion, and it offers an innovative and creative approach for consideration," said karen ballard, nysna's director of special projects.

more information about this proposal is available at the nysna web site (http://www.nysna.org) or by contacting ballard at 800-724-nyrn, ext. 242. if you have questions or would like to express your opinion on the plan, you also may write to the nys education department, office of the professions, state board for nursing, 89 washington ave., albany, ny 12234 or e-mail [email protected].

I saw it Deb. *sigh* all very confusing.

Specializes in Home Health, Primary Care.
Read even more carefully and you see where they want to relegate ADN/Diploma grads who do not earn their BSN within 10 years to LPN or inactive RN status!

this is a form of grandfathering, WITH a stipulation many are not seeing.

That stipulation only applies to people who get their ADNs AFTER this plan goes into effect. Not for people who get it before. Think of it this way....the plan will NOT be retroactive; and in this case, that's a good thing.

The New York State Board for Nursing (SBFN) recently agreed to recommend to the state Board of Regents that registered nurses with diploma or associate degrees be required to attain bachelor's degrees in nursing within 10 years of their licensure.

The requirement would apply only to RNs and nursing students who enter practice after the measure is enacted - all currently practicing RNs and nursing students would be exempted.

Unfortunately, I am a resident of New York state, and so this might affect me.

If you read some of my other posts, you will see that I am 39 years old and that because of the amount of student loan debt which I already carry, a B.S.N. degree may not be financially feasible for me.

The bottom line is, I may have to take my ADN degree and move out of NY state.

So does this mean that if I am enrolled in the Regents College progam, this will not effect me?. I am an LPN preparinging to start in the Excelsior program soon. Maybe I ought to go back to Ohio!!!!!!:uhoh21: :crying2:

Hasn't this been threatened everywhere for years? Along with phasing out LPN's. With the current shortage of nurses I would be very surprised if this passes.

Here in Phoenix, the state has ordered the cc's and uni's to pump out more nurses. Two (I believe there are 5 in this area with nursing programs) cc's and one uni have classes throught the summer so you can finish in less than 18 months after pre-reqs. There is also an accelerated one that you take you classes online and go to the hospital for clinicals. And a couple of new sites have opened up for nursing schools. The cc's actually run a couple right out of the hospitals now, in addition to on campus classes.

In my opinion if the states want BSN nurses they are going to have to fund the Rn to BSN bridge programs. If it is free and run at the hospitals many nurses would probably take advantage of it.

Even if this gets passed it is going to be a while. Notice how it said no date has been set to even start discussing it yet at the board of regents level. When my brother in law was starting school (he just finished this spring) it was an issue then as well. So as you can see this isn't exactly moving very fast. Since it will not affect anyone that is a student when (if) it is passed everyone that is on this board probably will not be affected. I am on a wait list and expect to get into a my nurisng program in the spring and I will be shocked if this is passed before then as I am sure that it will take a while to set a date to discuss it then there will be long breaks for thanksgiving and christmas and finally about this time next year they may have gotten around to it. So we are safe with our associates degrees. However for the future of nursing in NY. Yeah for a while I think it will cause more of a shortage, which will drive salaries up which in a few years time(about the 4 it takes to get a BSN) will get us back to where we are now since more people will choose nursing if the salaries go up even higher in NY. It may even attract some nurses from out of state to come for higher wages. Also since anyone with their associates already does not have to ever get a BSN, this would attract nurses with two year degrees and four year degrees.

While continued education is certainly a good thing, I certainly cannot imagine how NYSNA could take up this proposal at a time when the nursing shortage is so severe and expected to reach a crisis level within the next 10-15 years. There simply aren't enough BSN, ADN, or Diploma programs to meet the current need for nursing students and a proposal like would likely increase the nursing shortage.

I'm a New Yorker and a current first year ADN student (starting Aug 30, 04) but am not worried at all about this. In the unlikely event that this passes, I would be exempt anyway since I am a current student......AND....for those who aren't exempt....10 years is a very generous amount of time to earn the BSN.

REALITY though: NYSNA can propose anything it wants.....proposals though are meaningless since any major change like this in the licensing laws would need to be approved by the NY State General Assembly and Senate. ......as of today, August 03, our Governor, State Senate, and General Assembly can't even reach a compromise about a budget.......can't see them ever agreeing on a change as radical as this. First questions that they will ask? How much will it cost? Why is it needed? This goes against the trend of everywhere else in the USA and its territories (except for North Dakota). If every other state accepts the BSN, why does NY need to be different?

Even if it did actually pass, it could still take several years to implement. Example, after years if not decades of advocacy by the National Associaton of Social Workers New York State Chapter, NY has a new social work licensing law that goes into effect on Sept. 1, 2004. You will start seeing the new licenses of L.M.S.W. or Licensed Master Social Worker (in place of the old C.S.W. or Certified Social Worker) and the new advanced practice license of L.C.S.W. or Licensed Clinical Social Worker. This proposal was passed by the Assembly and Senate and signed into law in 2002 but still took 2 years for implementation.

sorry, I goofed. Corrections:

1) This was proposed by the NY State Board of Nursing. I stated NYSNA in my posting.

2) second to last paragraph. Should have said, "If every other state excepts the ADN, why should NY be different" (from the industry standard). I stated "BSN" in error.

I understand that, but my question is ... why would anyone go into the ADN program, knowing that they are going to have to have a BSN in the next few years? It would be wiser to just go for the BSN from the start. The other question I would have ..... are there enough BSN programs to meet the need? I would venture to say that there are not. This is going to be another huge problem for NY.

I don't believe there are enough BSN programs around here. I have looked into programs with Plattsburgh, SUNY Upstate, Roberts Wesleyan...they all required you to have your RN license first. Yet, if you have thousands of nurses wanting to go right into their bachelor's after the AD, there is going to be some HUGE competition.

I would also think that by enacting something like this before there are resources to back it up is going to cause a "supply & demand" effect. The cost of the BSN in NYS is going to through the roof...causing many people financial problems because it is harder to get decent financial aid with a nursing salary-especially in a two income househol...hospitals may be willing to take some of the cost, but that could get huge...increasing costs in the hospital...it is all a chain of effect.

I also wonder what it would do to the nursing salaries. Will they go up higher if the shortage gets worse b/c people are deterred by having to get a bachelor's degree? Some people only want to go to school for a couple years-that should be their choice!

I think it would also ruin the competition for certain positions. Before you know it, you will be required to go for your Masters just to stay ahead of the game.

NYS doesn't have to pay for it, they don't have to do all the hard work that comes with becoming a nurse, let alone being one...who do they think they are telling people what they "have" to have!!

How about worrying about our state budget first!!!!!!

Hello Everybody!

I am in the pre-nursing program in NYC and would like to ask a few questions.

I started my classes and find it so interesting. I am thrilled to be back in school and now I would like to get some information and suggestions form you all.

Originally I was planning to become a RN and then go into alternative medicine, but now I would like to find out more about my options once I`m a RN.

Can I have an Associates in Nursing and then go back to school to become a Nurse Practitioner? How long takes that program and can I become a MD from there? What is the difference if I go straight to Medical school instead of becoming a RN, a Nurse practitioner and then a Doctor?

The thing is that I would much rather have all the real experience in the hospital and work my way up, then come out of Med School without experienece.

I simply met too many doctors who are not too bright and should definatly not manage other people!

So, I wonder about the length of study and (if you should have any information) the difference in education.

Thank you all so much!

Kashmeera

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Just to clear up a couple of things, it was not NYSNA that proposed this change. In fact, NYSNA has written OPPOSITION to it & is lobbying in Albany against it. It wasnt "the state" who proposed the changes either. All of this came from one place only - our state BOARD OF NURSING, not our state legislature or our state nurses association.

Just to clear up a couple of things, it was not NYSNA that proposed this change. In fact, NYSNA has written OPPOSITION to it & is lobbying in Albany against it. It wasnt "the state" who proposed the changes either. All of this came from one place only - our state BOARD OF NURSING, not our state legislature or our state nurses association.

Actually, in my follow-up posting, I pointed out my mistake and correctly reported that it was the NYS Board of Nursing that has proposed this change. But to reiterate to everyone, the authority to make this change is 100% in the hands of the NY State General Assembly and NY State Senate.

I simply cannot imagine how our legislature (the Assembly and Senate) could ever seriously consider such a proposal which is completely out of step with the national standards for that define the educational requirements of an RN AND a proposal that would only exacerbate the nursing shortage. That said, everyone who is against this proposal has an obligation to telphone or send a letter to his/her representative in the NY Assembly as well as NY State Senator. And for those that don't fully understand politics, this is not Senators Clinton, Shumer or the Congressman/Congresswoman for your district. Those are your Federal Legislators.

If you do not know your NY legislators, log onto http://www.vote-smart.org and follow the directions.

A word of caution, while their e-mail addresses will be listed, this is the least effective form of communication with your legislator. A phone call to his/her office is far more effective as is a real letter that is mailed in the traditional way. A personal face-face meeting with the legislator or aide is the best strategy. Whether over the phone or via letter, always be sure to indicate that you are this legislator's constituent and give your full name, address, and phone number. Legislators are only interested in hearing from people who are constituents (live in their district).

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