To all "medical coverage is a privilege" folks: - Page 10

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  1. May 7, '12 by
    Quote from grpman
    I believe that food is a basic right and I give money and food accordingly which buttresses my beliefs. Likewise, those in favor of socialized health care should give of their resources and time to help those not insured. With all the support that this topic has, I'm sure that those in favor could raise a lot of money. However, it's often hard to give up gym memberships, new model cars, or a drop in our standard of living. I wish we weren't so hypocritcal, myself included, yet we are.
    I agree that many if not most of us may be able to "give" more to charitable organizations to assist those less fortunate. We have, as a society, been trying for some time to bridge the gap medically for those without resources. Many of us have volunteered our professional time or participated in some other fashion right here in the good ol' USA to provide health care to those in need.

    What is evident is that the health costs of the society are increasing at a rate that is not sustainable in our current system...even factoring in charitable care. This has nothing to do with just how charitable people are (and whether or not we give up gym memberships, new cars, etc) but has everything to do with ever increasing profit margins for share holders and our current health care delivery model.

    Personally, I find the comments directed at supporters of health care reform which suggest that we somehow ONLY want the government to provide care while intimating that we are not willing to engage in the charitable arena simply very ASSUMING in nature and does NOTHING to further the dialog necessary to actually accomplish reform.

    Just sayin...
    herring_RN, Autymn, nicurn001, and 1 other like this.
  2. May 7, '12 by
    Quote from tewdles
    Our current system discharges homeless people back to the street...
    How does that work? Does someone wheel them to the front (or back) of the hospital then tell them to leave? Do they come in the patient's room and tell him to leave? Who has to tell the patient to get out? A nurse? An aide?

    I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, I just am curious how this is actually carried out.
  3. May 7, '12 by
    Quote from OCNRN63
    How does that work? Does someone wheel them to the front (or back) of the hospital then tell them to leave? Do they come in the patient's room and tell him to leave? Who has to tell the patient to get out? A nurse? An aide?

    I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, I just am curious how this is actually carried out.
    I would guess in the usual way, when a patient is told they are fit for discharge , they are discharged in the same manner as they are now .Honestly I to am not trying to be a smart -alec either , however healthcare is financed I would have thought the discharge procedure would be unchanged .
    tewdles likes this.
  4. May 9, '12 by
    Quote from OCNRN63
    How does that work? Does someone wheel them to the front (or back) of the hospital then tell them to leave? Do they come in the patient's room and tell him to leave? Who has to tell the patient to get out? A nurse? An aide?

    I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, I just am curious how this is actually carried out.
    The hospital will even offer to call you a cab...sometimes they will even pay the cab and give them the address of a homeless shelter in the community.
  5. May 9, '12 by
    Here is my 5 cents (inflation ya know). People should be responsible for their own well being. The reason why health care is so expensive is not because of profit...its because of third payer systems. Spending other peoples money (currently insurance) makes is less painful to go to the MD or ER for a stubbed toe 5 days after you stubbed it because you don't want to go to work in the am. It is also the reason why supplies cost so much. Much like the crazy inflation of tuition rates. The ease in which you can get govt money for college encourages the colleges to then increase the cost. Basic economics, basic inflation. The same has occured in healthcare. Get rid of a third party system....prices will come down. Just look at the discounts facilities give the insurance companies and even deeper discounts they give private pay patients. Those that TRULY cannot afford will get charitable care without govt interference. Americans GIVE more than any other country and will continue to give more. But those riding the system without concequence are beginning to become a greater percentage than ever. The govt demands equal treatment for all thats a joke now...the rich will always get better care no matter what. You think Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro or Russian Prime Minister goes to the local community hospital AND what about those who abuse thier body willingly and frequently with repercussion. Do we continue to turn a blind eye? Less govt interference would allow facilities to make decisions on a case by case basis. Not about emergency care but about elective care. Again just my 5 cents
    RNChrissy4, schoolnurse09, nursbrooklyn, and 1 other like this.
  6. May 9, '12 by
    rkealy , I have in the past been accussed of looking at the world with rose tinted glasses , that is what you are doing , you are looking back to the time before the present insurance / taxation finaced model of healthcare existed , if it had been as good as you envision there would have been no desire in the populace for it to have been replaced .The free market in combination with charitable care was never able to provide care for all who NEEDED healthcare , so people were dying , or bankrupting their families to pay for their healthcare .I do not expect all to have the same amenities in the healthcare they recieve but feel that all who can afford to should be paying into the system to finance healthcare .
    We come at this probably from opposite wings of the political spectrum , but lets accept that ALL who can afford to finance their own healthcare ( whether from their own savings or insurance ) should do so , those who have valid reasons for being unable to finance their healthcare should still have access to needed care .
    As an aside do you feel the same about all insurance ie. it raises the prices of meeting the cost of covering the liability insured ? , and you don't like paying for the poor decisions / actions of others of others ?.Are you self insured for vehicular risks , damage to your home etc.?.
    herring_RN likes this.
  7. May 10, '12 by
    Nurses have alot of power to change health outcomes for everyone in America, "insurance" or not. When the law passes there will be great opportunity for public health nurses to manage and educate patients in preventing major hospitalizations. Know what you are worth, and work together, whatever you are making you are worth more- don't get caught up in simple minded arguments on hypothetical situations that are more of a moral debate and would never happen. The problem is we let people get really sick and then spend sometimes upwards of millions of dollars(made up prices by insurance company- kind of like the house you bought 6 years ago) in emergency/life saving procedures that by law hospitals have to provide(will never change so why discuss)- scenario-

    you have a 100 patient load as a public health nurse- you see 5 pts a day- make calls, work normal hours- you know this dude, he isnt going to take his lisinopril- so you go surprise him on his front door step- take his pressure 190's- take yer pill dude- bp now 150's- hemmoragic stroke prevented- man happy, man scared you are going to show up on his door step maybe think he need to takey his pills to avoid that - me happy- 100 k in hospitalization saved, 3 million in for 2 years on a peg tube drooling with reoccurent bedsores in ltc - thats what we are worth..3.1 million...and saving dudes life- dont let this divide us like teachers - we are already scared to say anything about raises or work conditions in fear for our jobs- guess what guys there will always be another ass to wipe...
    tewdles, sauconyrunner, and Psychtrish39 like this.
  8. May 10, '12 by
    The primary flaw in the Public Health educational model is the idea that a majority of persons are able to grasp long-term consequences. Most cannot. A significant number of those that are able, choose not to do so.

    From the perspective of someone with a chronic condition (diabetes): if the Gvt. chooses to force allocation of assets to sustain everyone, treatment methods will revert to the lowest common denominator (read sub-q long acting/short-acting insulin). Loss of most efficacious therapy by the compliant patient results in diminished states of health. Continued non-compliance by the inherently non-compliant (selling Gvt. provided resources for sex, dope, alcohol, or other coping mechanism) results in minimal demonstrable gain in societal health, with increased M&M among the compliant population. I fail to see the benefit, here.

    Sorry, this is primary educational theory- the more hand-holding, the more the institution provides, and the less personal responsibility is required, the greater the level of developmental retardation and maladaption.
  9. May 10, '12 by
    Quote from neatnurse30
    If the family has no insurance, then that means they are not working. Maybe they should have thought about birth control before conceiving a child which they can't afford. Why should I feel guilty now for all the folks who are irresponsible - produce kids, don't work, do drugs, illegals? Do you expect me to pay for all of them? If you think that healthcare is a right, then go ahead and pay for all of these people, and we'll see how quickly you'll change your mind.
    People who think like this shouldn't be nurses. The sick child didn't ask to be born to parents without money.
    myelin, everwonder_y, herring_RN, and 4 others like this.
  10. May 10, '12 by
    Wow.
    Lots of different opinions.. interesting reading. I will say that in my 30yrs + in healthcare, I've worked many different areas, and had the child landed in the ER, we ALL know he'd be treated regardless of ability to pay. COME ON. EMTALA rules...

    Problem landed when government got involved in people's lives to the point that they are today. Whatever happened to the generation in America that worked hard, played hard, and met their financial obligations to society? They're dying. Wanna know what that looked like? Watch "Leave it to Beaver" or "My Three Sons" or even "The Waltons". The generations that followed have been enabled to this "entitlement" to the point that now everything has to be given to those who "won't". Free healthcare, more money for having more kids you cannot afford or support, free cellphones, etc, etc. Give the government the reigns on healthcare and you won't like what that looks like. Your next ER visit will be WORSE than your last trip to the DMV. And just know there is a REASON that Congress is voting in these rules for YOU and YOURS for which THEY are exempt. That sounds like a good idea to me.

    Just sayin....