Comparing a nurses' salary - page 4

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports employment among Registered Nurses will grow faster than the average for all occupations through 2018. They also report that large metropolitan cities such as... Read More

  1. Visit  Wild Irish LPN profile page
    6
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    A month of actual nursing experience is with more than a year of education.
    very well said, and so very true....
    Aviationurse, mjs2118, Jessy_RN, and 3 others like this.
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  3. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    6
    Quote from RCBR
    They are not equivalent, but more education means more qualification and more qualification should mean more pay, in my books at least.Now, even though that is what I think is fair, I do not think that wewill see a significant BSN differential anytime
    soon. The way the health care market seems to be rewarding the extra education of BSN graduates is by hiring BSN graduates in the first place instead of ASN/ADN/Diploma graduates, as evidenced by the "BSN preferred" or "BSN required"
    new grad positions positions posted. That is how I think the market will deal with this issue.
    I agree that having a BSN is a career boost and, everything else being equal, it will give you an edge over new ADN grads. But how are
    you more qualified? The ADNs have the exact same nursing license as you, with the exact same scope of practice. What can you do that they can't?

    Having two very different levels of eudation for the exact same licensure muddies the waters. There is no easy solution. Do we declare the ADNs underqulaified to do bedside acute care and lump them into a dependent, "technical" role along with LPNs? Or do we declare the BSNs overqualified and push them away from the bedside? Neither scenario is satisfactory.

    Some would say just phase out the ADN programs, grandfather the current ADNs practicing and make the BSN the sole route to RN. The problem with this is you don't *need* a four year university education to provide excellent bedside care. Millions of ADN and diploma RNs prove this every second of every day. To suggest otherwise is both naive and a slap in the face to countless practicing RNs.

    The role of the basic bedside nurse will always be dominated by nurses with less than a four year education. Only time will tell if the bedside nurse of the future is an ADN a LPN or some combination of the two roles. But I strongly believe the push for "BSN only RNs" will push the RN role firmly away from the bedside and into supervision, case management, research, etc. And maybe that's for the best.....
    Jessy_RN, brandy1017, tnmarie, and 3 others like this.
  4. Visit  whichone'spink profile page
    1
    Quote from nhnursie
    "The system is rigged so that those on the top get far more than they deserve, and while I resent that, it is how it is."

    Maybe when you are 30 years into your career, you will re think your position....
    Unless I am the CNO of a hospital in 30 years, I'll still make less than any hospital executive.
    kabfighter likes this.
  5. Visit  NewGoalRN profile page
    0
    How many hours do you work? Do you get overtime or do you work a 2nd job? That is a high salary for Florida. Good for you!!
  6. Visit  decembergrad2011 profile page
    2
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    I agree that having a BSN is a career boost and, everything else being equal, it will give you an edge over new ADN grads. But how are
    you more qualified? The ADNs have the exact same nursing license as you, with the exact same scope of practice. What can you do that they can't?

    Having two very different levels of eudation for the exact same licensure muddies the waters. There is no easy solution. Do we declare the ADNs underqulaified to do bedside acute care and lump them into a dependent, "technical" role along with LPNs? Or do we declare the BSNs overqualified and push them away from the bedside? Neither scenario is satisfactory.

    Some would say just phase out the ADN programs, grandfather the current ADNs practicing and make the BSN the sole route to RN. The problem with this is you don't *need* a four year university education to provide excellent bedside care. Millions of ADN and diploma RNs prove this every second of every day. To suggest otherwise is both naive and a slap in the face to countless practicing RNs.

    The role of the basic bedside nurse will always be dominated by nurses with less than a four year education. Only time will tell if the bedside nurse of the future is an ADN a LPN or some combination of the two roles. But I strongly believe the push for "BSN only RNs" will push the RN role firmly away from the bedside and into supervision, case management, research, etc. And maybe that's for the best.....
    They are not trying to push BSN's away from the bedside. If anything, the hospitals concerned with magnet status are attempting to bring in more and more BSNs to the floor, hence the lack of jobs out there for ADN graduates. When I was hired in, the talk was all about those with ADNs going back to school - they are actually mandated to do so at my institution - and how there was research about improved patient outcomes with higher percentages of BSN-prepared nurses on the floor. I think you are more likely to see the ADN's scope decreased than the BSNs being pushed away from the bedside. It honestly is naive to think that there are enough positions out there for BSNs to only be working in management and research.

    I don't think I'm better than anyone for having my BSN, and I listen to my ADN co-workers with more experience when I have a question. But I also grow tired of people who haven't gone through a BSN program thinking that it was superfluous. I'd rather have a professional that was "overqualified" than "bare minimum" taking care of me if you want to compare it that way. I do not compare the two because I see them on a continuum. I prefer to think of it as teaching degrees. Many places will hire you (maybe not so much anymore) with a bachelor's education degree, especially for substitute teaching. However, there is an expectation in my state that you go back and get your Master's degree after a certain period of time. Much like nurses, teachers are expected to continuously evolve and grow and learn new techniques and ideas. I feel like going from ADN to BSN, etc, is actually a great way to grow as a nurse rather than stagnating. Academics can expose you to things that the workplace cannot, and a big part of that is a little bit of idealism and theory which deserves a place in our agenda if we want to change things for the better in our work communities.

    Just my opinion.
    SE_BSN_RN and lbrn22 like this.
  7. Visit  Surgery182 profile page
    2
    @RCBR

    Why would you go to a larger university and pay tens of thousands of dollars to get the same degree that you could have gotten much cheaper at a community college? You can't necessarily argue that you got a better education because the content of nursing school is arguably the same. The NCLEX is a pretty standardized test that everyone must pass. So really the only one to blame about having tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt is yourself. And should you be paid more for having a BSN? I would say no. Someone already mentioned that experience typically trumps classroom education. Go to any nursing manager and ask who their best/hardest working nurses are and I bet the answer will be a mix of BSN and ADN nurses (along with diploma grads). Some ADN nurses may not be able to write an excellent paper on the microbial skin count near an incision on postop day two, but they will run circles around a BSN nurse who got an 'A' on said paper.
    Jessy_RN and brandy1017 like this.
  8. Visit  decembergrad2011 profile page
    5
    Quote from Surgery182
    @RCBR

    Why would you go to a larger university and pay tens of thousands of dollars to get the same degree that you could have gotten much cheaper at a community college? You can't necessarily argue that you got a better education because the content of nursing school is arguably the same. The NCLEX is a pretty standardized test that everyone must pass. So really the only one to blame about having tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt is yourself. And should you be paid more for having a BSN? I would say no. Someone already mentioned that experience typically trumps classroom education. Go to any nursing manager and ask who their best/hardest working nurses are and I bet the answer will be a mix of BSN and ADN nurses (along with diploma grads). Some ADN nurses may not be able to write an excellent paper on the microbial skin count near an incision on postop day two, but they will run circles around a BSN nurse who got an 'A' on said paper.
    I just don't understand the need to categorize either degree. Not all ADNs barely literate skill fiends and not all BSNs are bumbling wordsmiths headed for management. A good nurse is a good nurse. THIS attitude is part of the problem.
    sealford, Jessy_RN, tnmarie, and 2 others like this.
  9. Visit  lbrn22 profile page
    4
    Nurses salaries should start out at $50K. I agree with fjellgren when he says, "magnitude of risks, and stress, involved in providing patient care regardless of the care setting."

    I am new to nursing at 50 getting my BSN. I have never seen people work so hard with so much stress all at once, and constantly throughout their day. $50,000 to start!!
    Rizz, Jessy_RN, brandy1017, and 1 other like this.
  10. Visit  RN1Each profile page
    1
    After graduating as an RN I was hired on a Telemetry floor at a base rate of $22.18/hr. I chose to work overnights (for the huge shift diff), and all told I average about $25.50 an hour exclusive of unlimited overtime. My highest hourly rate is $26.62 on weekend overnights.

    The most I ever made before I became an RN was $16.25 an hour as an overnight stock manager...and that was after slogging through 10 years in retail.

    I make alot more money now; and my family and I are eternally grateful.

    And I sometimes feel that as competent as I am, I'm still a bit overpaid for what I do .

    That's just my opinion: NOT looking for backlash here!
    SE_BSN_RN likes this.
  11. Visit  FinnyBooBoo71 profile page
    2
    I agree with you RCBR. It is depressing. I am thankful to be offered a job but $20 a hour will barely cover my about $900 tuition bill along with other cost of living expenses. Yes we may be doing the same work but there should be some incentive for getting a BSN.
    brandy1017 and SE_BSN_RN like this.
  12. Visit  finchfamily4 profile page
    0
    My husband hires new grads for his department and they all start out around $65K/yr as Engineers. You would think a nurse would be given at least that! I'm going on 20 yrs as a BSN RN and the most I've made is $60K/yr.
  13. Visit  RCBR profile page
    3
    Quote from Surgery182
    @RCBR
    Why would you go to a larger university and pay tens of thousands of dollars to get the same degree that you could have gotten much cheaper at a community college?
    Are you for real??? Universities award bachelor degrees. Community colleges award associate degrees. They are not the same degree. Please approach reality. I cannot believe you think that 2 and 4 year educational institutions award the same degree. Are you even a nurse?

    Quote from Surgery182
    @RCBR
    You can't necessarily argue that you got a better education because the content of nursing school is arguably the same.
    Yes I can. The content is not the same. BSN graduates have 120-130 credit hours of education versus 60-70. Sorry, but twice the credit hours IS A BETTER EDUCATION. Now, if you think all that extra education makes no practical difference, look at the research done by Aiken et al. showing that the higher the education of nurses the lower the mortality of patients.

    Quote from Surgery182
    @RCBR
    The NCLEX is a pretty standardized test that everyone must pass.
    The NCLEX is a joke, sorry. Do you really think a 75 question multiple choice exam evaluates your skill and ability as nurse? At its best the NCLEX tests the bare minimum knowledge you need not to kill your patients the first week of work.

    Quote from Surgery182
    @RCBR
    So really the only one to blame about having tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt is yourself.
    True, I accept responsibility for my choices, but I don't regret them. The Saint Louis Community College had a 2 year waiting list when I applied to nursing school where the University I attended had no waiting list, which means I graduated two years earlier. Those two extra years of RN income (80K) more than pays for the student loans. I think this is the same situation (long waiting lists at community colleges) in most markets.


    Quote from Surgery182
    @RCBR
    And should you be paid more for having a BSN? I would say no. Someone already mentioned that experience typically trumps classroom education.
    I trust scientific research more than anedoctal evidence. The Aiken research clearly correlates better clinical outcomes with more extensive formal nursing education.

    QUOTE=Surgery182;6869809]@RCBR
    Go to any nursing manager and ask who their best/hardest working nurses are and I bet the answer will be a mix of BSN and ADN nurses (along with diploma grads). [/QUOTE]

    All anedoctal evidence. Again, please read the scientific reasearch on the link between ASN/ADN and BSN nursing education and patient mortality.

    QUOTE=Surgery182;6869809]@RCBR
    Some ADN nurses may not be able to write an excellent paper on the microbial skin count near an incision on postop day two, but they will run circles around a BSN nurse who got an 'A' on said paper. [/QUOTE]

    How do you know they run circles on BSN nurses? Sorry, you have no evidence for what you are saying.
    sealford, 11RN, and SE_BSN_RN like this.
  14. Visit  SE_BSN_RN profile page
    0
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    I don't get your point. Of course the nurses all don't make the same amount. A nurse who's been working for 20 years deserves to make more than the new grad. You move up the pay scale with experience. But BSNs do not deserve a separate, higher pay scale than the ADNs.
    The problem with the pay scale, at least at my old job, was based on 1-5 years of experience, 5-10 years, 10-15 years and 15+, and most of the time it was only $1 difference from one group of years to the next.

    And, yes, the BSN's do deserve a separate higher pay scale than ADN's. They have more classes, and more clinical hours. An ADN is 2 years, a BSN is 4. Big difference in class and clinical time. And, that varies from state to state. That is the same as saying a BSN should get paid the same as a NP. Only 18 months difference in schooling there, along with more clinical hours. As well as a great deal more responsibility.


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