iPN troubles

luvche · Aug 13, 2010

I feel your pain. The peer program here is either voluntary (you go yourself) or ordered (by BON if you go before them and they decide or if you refuse to go voluntarily after being reported to investigations)

There are simply NO checks and balances in peer. Even people in drug court have a lawyer that can argue before a judge if something is unfair.

Case in point:

I heard about a member who got a surgery about a month before graduating the program. She did what she was supposed to do. The physicians, surgeons and anesthesiologist filled out the forms documenting EVERY medication put in her.

She tested 3 days after surgery. NONE of those drugs showed up in system. But another one did. A benzo. Well she had benzos during her care, but the lab was showing a particular one not listed. So she thought they must have missed listing this med. Got back in touch with all who cared for her. They have no record of THIS particular benzo.

However, she had a pharmacist tell her after 3 days a benzo can be so broken down it shows as a different type of one. (He said, though, that it was weird NOT ONE OTHER MED she was given showed, but one she was not given did....sounds like mishandling of specimans to me)

She eventually paid for a retest of speciman, hair follicle test and lawyer. Used up her savings. Hair follicle proved she, indeed, had many of the listed meds. But NOT the one she "tested positive" for in the urine.

Because of that positive (with only a month to go) she is required to complete a whole extra 2 years. A judge can order that she was in the right, and evidence proves it. But peer doesn't have to let her graduate.

I, myself, was told I only needed AA. No inpatient or outpatient. But the psych evaluator told me that "peer won't allow me to say you only need AA. They will require at least outpatient". Peer told me "that's not true, we go by what the evaluator recommends". Evaluator said that isn't true. So he put intensive outpatient (6,000$ at my expense....and I am not even working as a nurse and lost my insurance). Peer doesn't believe the evaluator told me that. But the intake RN for outpatient said "I believe it, peer will find a way to make you do more than just AA meetings". She had been asked to serve on peer board and refused for that type of reason.

I know I should be greatful I will get out with no record of this on my license (as I volunteered). But it is the most involuntary, unconfidential frogram (for being voluntary and confidential). Once you sign on...you can leave. But then you lose your confidentiality and peer sends your records to the BON. Then you go before them and they order it. Then it's on your license forever. Confidential? Everyone where you get your supervised pratice figures it out when you can't be on-call, float, or pass narcs/controlled substances/any substance that can be abused.

OK. Done venting and making no sense. Just gotta get through one more year of testing, nurse support groups, paperwork, and being broke!

genaa75 · Aug 13, 2010

Southernpoint...Thankyou for the feedback , i know this is frustrating to most of us who realy need to get are point across and provide are evidence to the board. The thing that realy hurts me is when they make these allegations public record and fail to leave out important information Allegations should be investigated before we are even speaking to the investigater....We should be provided with some kind of attorney before giving a statement..True criminals have more rights then nurses....I called the bon today requesting papers to give up my nl , i was told i had to write a letter to the bon and they would .Im very sad that it has come to this , but i did the ipn thing for a year , got off all my rxs as ordered , went to there ordered outpt ,ect ect , and had clean uas all year and still pears had the power to give one bad eval.....All others throughout that year were good , positive , but like i said the month i was waiting for , to at least try to find a job with ipn contract on my back never came.If you found a good attorney please , please let me know. If anything i can use my experience with faulse allegations, hokey dr. Being told i could be right back to work after signing ipn>>>>>>Even if i get nothing out of this it may help other nurses who , think going with ipn is easier then waiting to be heard by the bon . Another thing when reading ones disapline report on line , its like someone just made up there own theroy of what happen and why you are unsafe to do you job...I found 5 statements in mine , that were wrong who wrote this ?????For all to see.I wont be back to this site for sometime as it only upsets me to see all of us ,,,, well the ones who dare to say anything>> That we are all hurting and angry , but nothing is being done..... :rolleyes:

genaa75 · Aug 14, 2010

Like many,many other nurses in Florida, I am currently in the seemingly inescapable stronghold of the IPN. I was referred after taking 2 diet pills on my weekend off, and tested positive for amphetamines after an injury at work in the ICU 3 days later! Between the evaluations, mandatory outpatient meetings and seeing a psychologist,a psychiatrist, an addictionologist, mandatory attendance of 4 AA/NA meetings weekly, mandatory IPN nurse support group meetings weekly-I thought I was going to lose my mind. Instead, since I was kept out of work for over 16 weeks, and I'm the primary income in our home since my spouse is W/C bound due to SCI,---I didn't lose my mind, but we lost just about everything else we owned-including our home. When I tell you that IPN does not care one little bit about nurses or the added stress that they place on us...You can take that to the bank! Since I was referred to IPN for an innocent attempt to kick start a diet a year ago, it has cost me well over $20K if not more, in lost wages, loss of my home (which I bought in 1983!), and loss of an enormous amount of time with my husband, who requires a great deal of assistance! We have no help from anyone, neither financially nor physically.
The stress and aggravation applied by IPN was, and still is relentless, and uncaring. Nevermind, very expensive!
The IPN is a self-governing body of people who make their own set of rules, and bend them however they choose.
they are not monitored by, nor answer to the BON. Now, as a result of 30 years of lifting patients and equipment, I have had to undergo neurosurgery for the second time! This time, I bought myself 2 Titanium plates, an allograft, etc., in my C spine. Does it hurt? You bet your ass it does! Does IPN care? Not one bit! IF I should be able to return to nursing in any arena, IPN will require that I not be permitted to take any prescribed medications for pain, or the horrible neuropathy associated with this surgery. Since this was a "cumulative injury", and not something specific, I can't file Workmans Comp. Instead, I receive $200/wk disability, which doesn't go very far. What's the answer? I think that it's time that nurses like us really unite in an effort to make changes to the way IPN functions, and makes their decisions. There is absolutely NO uniform initial evaluation protocols in place, and after a lot of investigation, the "IPN approved" physicians we are forced to go to can perform an eval any way they choose! Then, they send that eval and recommended TREATMENT MODALITY to IPN, who then proceeds to make the rest of our life hell. It costs an enormous amount of money, time, and emotion to make a mistake(even the innocent ones) which forces a nurse into the IPN. Urine drug screens-$47.00 a pop, 52 weeks in an outpatient recovery program-$4000.00, IPN support group meetings-$10.00/wk, IPN $50.00/yr, and the list goes on! There has to be a way for a higher agency to monitor IPN, mandate changes demanding uniform evaluations, and requiring annual reviews of progress, instead of arbitrarily handing out 5 year sentences to nurses who,like me, unintentionally screwed up! OK-I'm sorry this was so long, but I'm really angry that this IPN crap has had such a negative effect on my career. I don't drink alcohol, or take illicit drugs. All of the drug screens since the initial one have been negative. But, yet-----IPN goes on!!!!! ANYONE IN TALLAHASSEE LISTENING?????????:angryfire

I too , hope someday we can prove we are not criminals , we are caring nurses who gave our lifes and bodies to the public , ending in are personal injury , requiring sugury and rx medication , to control are pain so we may keep giving are gift to those who need,,,In anycase 5 years i worked without any impairment nor indangering any pt, on my rx/ as my dr. was aware of my career.....But one ua , and your a criminal so sad.Esp after 12 years of giving. I realy cant understand how the bon allows this to go one without realy checking into the allegations/and also protecting us nurses.The shotage of good nurses continues.Where is legal aid to protect us???????????? :nurse:

genaa75 · Aug 23, 2010

I have come to the point , where i just want to sign my license away , as ipn is a joke , i believe bon doesnt look into the full complaints and look into the allegations , we are just a number , forget the long hard years of giving are lives and time taking care of are own family /kids. We gave many miles , smiles and worked harder for those who need good caring nurses and there familys.Forget are needs , if your hungy or you have to pee.....Ok maybe after you take the treatment you didnt have time to do. Here is my story . I became a lpn in 2000. The medical feild was my calling , i was one of those nurses who felt good to help others even through the high pt load and being treated bad. Back in 2006 i was working agency that year and had many facilitiys requesting me back , no problems . One day i was asked if i wanted a one week 7-3 contract at a facility i had never been to , despite many nurses warning me of problems they had experienced there i wanted the week shift . I should of just never took the keys , and i wouldnt be without my license. First warning was due to change pt one fenteyl patch , and found no old one on this pt who was a total care pt. I reported this to the supervisor because the 11-7 nurse sign it was there. Next total care pt fentenyl patch due to be changed again no old. Reported it again. Requested supervisor go withme to check all patches and all were signed to be on but were not on. I was asked to apply to all 10 pt ,at that point i was very behind and agervated, as a nurse i know i had to get dr orders for each one , not one nurse would help. i called my agency crying , wanting to leave , but was threatened with abandonment.So idid the best i could with having 30 blind and deaf residents under my license.Make a long story short. 3pm came and it was time to count with the oncoming nurse , guess what 1 fentenyl patch was missing from the count.....I was in fear i may have put it on the wrong pt. So i ran to every pt checking , it could of killed someone 100mgs. The staff and nurses were so mean had me crying badgerung me. I called my agency boss . She had me come straight to the office for urine screen. So i left after getting into my car , the patch that was unaccounted for was in my back pocked , still seeled with pt room numb. and name/ With relief came fear. Would they call the police and accuse me of stealing if i brought it back ?I was happy i didnt make medical error or kill someone i called my boss , she told ne to bring her the patch and do the drug screen. I did she knew it was a innocent mistake. She called them and told them of the mistake, they still called the police , after a clean urine and a police report stating inocent mistake and the 11-7 nurse who signed patches was presant should be interveiwed. Well this was the end of agency for me. My boss then wrote a letter for me explaining she has had many problems with her nurses going to the facility and no longer sends them there, also explained i worked all over pinellas facilitys with good faith and always requested back. So i moved on went on staff for about 6 months was very happy as facility happy with me . That ended when a pt became violent and broke my shoulder .I had to get a workers comp attornney and was out of work and was a week later . I was asked to go see a bon dr.Due to a allegation almost ayear ago , i was hesitent ,was told if i didnt go i would loose my license , so cast and all i drove myself to tampa for this prescriptions in hand and proof i was not even working a due to injury .No big deal i thought. After shoulder healed found my self a nice job , doing well raising 2 kids on my own . I had been working aprox a year when out of nowere right at xmass time i was seved with papers stating my license had been suspended due to a evaluation 2 years prior from a dr who only talked to me for 10 min wrote her note and done.Anyway shocked i agreed to ipn thinking i could keep my job and do as they say , well let me tell you!!!!!!!!!After awhole year of there reqierments and urine tests at 45 a drop being labled as a adict because i was on narcotics after my injury and even though i had rx and was not working Via workers comp. I couldnt believe it took them 2 years and the allegations where false there was no truth , of what realy happend the day of jan 22.But with no money to fight it i signed there contract did everything they asked clean urine tests for a year . The cost of the support groups every week and 450. Dr eval 12 weeks of extensive out pt theropy.My contract was signed in march , i was told i had 5 years with them ,but after a year i could return to practice under there supervison. I attened my home support group every week ,for 6 months Nov 2009 , was to be my return back to work depending on my support group opinion....Little did i know , i shared a relationship break up with them , after group i was ready for my report as they were always good , stating i was sober , had good judgment and able to handle problems well . Not this one....The group My support group. Stated on my evaluation they didnt think i was ready to return to work I was crushed .I felt more time out of work and a nonsupportive support group/ I called my case worker the next day and she suggested transfering me to another group as she to knew it wasnt right , but ipn puts your lives in other addicts and recovering addicts hands , and just have to hope and pray there realy supportive and want to see you succseed Anyway i was so upset i just gave up that was 6 months ago , very frustated i gave up. I spoke to a attorney who stated he could of presented my evidence to the bon , and the allegations on my part , but because i thought ipn was the best option at the time , it would be hard and a lot of money to reopen the case and present my side to the bon......Very hurt feeling i gave my life to those in need as all of us nurses do and noone oversees some of the best nurse BON is loosing because we just cant seem to get to prove we are humans who care enough to do are jobs . I feel we are all just case numbers without Names........... I can only pray oneday my case will be reveiwed and i will be agnologst as a nurse not a number....

I am just wondering as i know for sure , many ,many nurses have Rx and are in pain management and need there medications , just as a diabetic needs insulin.....I myself was injued while restraining a pt , who in return broke my shoulder in 3 places.....THat was over 4 years ago .....I now have to have 3 surgies ... And srtuggle with pain daily .... The thing is i worked while on pain management for 4 out of ten years. Peers nor emplyers never noticed any imapirment as i was very compliant with my prescibing Dr. who knew of my career . So can anyonr tell me > If taking your medicine as ordered by A Dr. to benifet and when all other pain tx has failed . Who is it who automaticly makes the law...Nurse injured ... Nurse...Nurse suffer in pain...Or nurse... Loose there meaning in life......Are career. Those nurses not in ipn are able to practice while on Rx by Dr. Those nurses who ended up in ipn for either false allegations or ua showing Rx meds in system ......Where is the compassion for those nurses who have been injured on the job.... Forced to see Dr....Who clearly aware of your career.....Im very confused a prescribing Dr. for pain management would for sure be monitor there Pt...If any abuse noted It would be that Dr. who should be responisble to help there pt... I would like to know who decides if Nurse needs something for pain

luvche · Aug 24, 2010

I know in peer in this state, if you have an injury or condition that requires and controlled substance, you can not practice while you take it (ie: you have surgery and take lortab for 2 weeks after). You can return to nursing duties upon a clean UA if you have been taking a controlled RX and have proof of the prescription. No...you can't go in and take it voluntarily. You have to wait until your are randomly chosen through Firstlab. So you could be waiting for weeks after taking it.

Also, if you have any condition requiring you to be on long term controlled substances (benzos, narcotics, etc), you can not be in the peer program. This means you A) give up your license B) get your info sent to the board, then you are ordered to do the boards program then after that you go BACK to peer...which you can't do if you take long term controlled meds, or C) you have to find an alternative to those meds. Even if the alternative does not work.

Is IPN the same?

genaa75 · Aug 29, 2010

is there anyone aware esp the bon .....please some of us nurses realy deserve another look into the allegations taken upon us.....we gave are lives to those sick , dying , recovering , for many years ......some of us even have major injuries we have to deal with for the rest of our lifes.......after tallahasee starts to see , good nurses with many years of experience are giving up there license due , to the brick walls and waiting to provide what realy happened the time of allegations , and how we were treated at our dr.ipn evals.....please who is it we should contact ? we want to speak to the board . proof we are good nurses not a case number....i mean please taking rx meds while on workers comp and having my eval at that time?????? i wasnt even working due to a nursing related injury.......someone please listen to us we are human...and deserve to be heard.....

jackstem · Aug 30, 2010

is there anyone aware esp the bon .....please some of us nurses realy deserve another look into the allegations taken upon us.....we gave are lives to those sick , dying , recovering , for many years ......some of us even have major injuries we have to deal with for the rest of our lifes.......after tallahasee starts to see , good nurses with many years of experience are giving up there license due , to the brick walls and waiting to provide what realy happened the time of allegations , and how we were treated at our dr.ipn evals.....please who is it we should contact ? we want to speak to the board . proof we are good nurses not a case number....i mean please taking rx meds while on workers comp and having my eval at that time?????? i wasnt even working due to a nursing related injury.......someone please listen to us we are human...and deserve to be heard.....

this entire thread is one of the reasons i strongly suggest that any nurse facing a board of nursing investigation for any reason obtain legal advice and/or representation. we have the right to an attorney during any questioning whether as part of an initial investigation, during a hearing, and while reviewing and considering a consent agreement. yes, yes, yes attorneys cost money. but when you are facing the possibility of having a restricted license, a revoked license, and ending up on the various "lists" that can restrict or end your practice...the money for an attorney is worth it. and yes, there are some bad attorneys out there just like there are bad doctors, bad nurses, and bad plumbers. do your homework. research the various license defense attorneys. trying to deal with a highly emotional situation and represent yourself with a legal system you don't understand can result in some terrible outcomes (just read the posts on this bulletin board). also, waiting until the defecation hits the ventilation to hire the attorney is waiting a little too long. once you sign that agreement with the bon, hiring an attorney at that point makes their job extremely difficult and limits their options. as many have found out, being innocent doesn't guarantee a positive outcome. sad, but that's the reality we live in.

hiring an attorney doesn't mean you'll "get out" of whatever your in, it means your rights are taken into consideration and protected, and will hopefully provide you with the best possible outcome. there are no guarantees, but there aren't any in our business either, right?

i've been criticized several times on this message board for recommending attorney representation. "jack consults with an attorney, of course he'll recommend one." so how does that disqualify the recommendation? if i worked for a neurologist and someone with a neuro problem approached me for input and i recommended a neurologist or neurosurgeon, would the fact that i consult with one mean the advice is unsound? who should i recommend for a nurse facing legal problems? a plumber? until i see more nurses coming out ahead than behind when representing themselves, one of the first recommendations i will continue to make is to seek legal representation by a qualified license defense attorney before doing anything else! if you don't have the money, borrow it (unless struggling to find work with a restricted license is no biggie). contact the bar association in your area or state to see if there are license defense (or administrative law) attorneys who do pro bono work. be very cautious about allowing uncle joe or your criminal defense attorney to represent you. the law is becoming specialized just like medicine. ot sure i'd want a dermatologist to treat my brain tumor.

jack

you're worth it!

jack

Trauma Columnist · Aug 30, 2010

Jack - agree wholeheartedly - the second you get accepted to nursing school, you should pay the bucks for your own private malpractice policy. The most important part of this insurance policy is legal representation when/if you have a board of nursing hearing or even think you might have a board of nursing hearing.

The BON hears/sees all complaints, all lawsuit settlements, etc.. Although, yes the majority of BON hearings seem to deal with impaired/diversion issues, there are many, many reason that a nurse can have a hearing.

Do your homework when looking for an attorney: for instance, if your BON is in the big city in your state and you live hundreds of miles away, it will be cheaper for you to find an attorney in that big city where the BON is located - its much cheaper for you to drive to the big city than for the attorney to travel to see you.

Do your research: ask prospective attorneys how many nurses/healthcare professionals they have represented at the BON and what outcomes did they get? This is like interviewing someone for a job - and its your career in many cases they are discussing.

Never go it alone no matter what reason you go to the BON.

(And no, I'm not affiliated with any attorney - lol).

jackstem · Aug 30, 2010

Jack - agree wholeheartedly - the second you get accepted to nursing school, you should pay the bucks for your own private malpractice policy. The most important part of this insurance policy is legal representation when/if you have a board of nursing hearing or even think you might have a board of nursing hearing.
The BON hears/sees all complaints, all lawsuit settlements, etc.. Although, yes the majority of BON hearings seem to deal with impaired/diversion issues, there are many, many reason that a nurse can have a hearing.
Do your homework when looking for an attorney: for instance, if your BON is in the big city in your state and you live hundreds of miles away, it will be cheaper for you to find an attorney in that big city where the BON is located - its much cheaper for you to drive to the big city than for the attorney to travel to see you.
Do your research: ask prospective attorneys how many nurses/healthcare professionals they have represented at the BON and what outcomes did they get? This is like interviewing someone for a job - and its your career in many cases they are discussing.
Never go it alone no matter what reason you go to the BON.
(And no, I'm not affiliated with any attorney - lol).

Well said traumaRUs! :yeah:

(I'll bet you're secretly affiliated with an attorney! - :lol2: )

Jack

Trauma Columnist · Aug 30, 2010

Nope not in the least - just been a nurse awhile and have seen people hurt by not having an attorney represent them.

Thanks Jack.

jackstem · Aug 30, 2010

Nope not in the least - just been a nurse awhile and have seen people hurt by not having an attorney represent them.
Thanks Jack.

AMEN!!!! Me too!!!!!

Thanks for what you guys do for the recovering nurses out there!

Jack

genaa75 · Sep 5, 2010

I too was wondering about moving to another state ....Should i volentary give up my nl here in FL , before i go....My NL is a active/susspention status at this point.I was wondering how you go about getting a license in another state......? DO you contact the bon in that state and ask how to obtain a NL in that state , do you have to take there state board test ? Another thing i was wondering , i have read some post on this site stating you may not use your tiltle as a nurse if its suspended . I know a few nurses who had disaplinary actions against the NL and where able to work in Costa rica , Bahammas , and mexico....These nurses travel over there 6 months out of the year work as a nurse. Its not like nurses are trying to get away with not complying with all the restrictions of ipn , Its just that why waist ones knowlege of medicine , and many years of experience . Anyone out there knows how that would work ....A nurse is always a nurse its like riding a bike you never forget ...And we are all special its in our blood and our hearts forever , even if we are addicts . I am so angry with the way the bon handles there own....Where is the fairness in this ? We are human not case numbers.....We should all be given a fair chance , look into the alligations for each of us before you ruin our privacy our reputations and put false information on the internet and stamp it .Every case or should i say nurse , have differnt issues that forced us into ipn m but we all get the same treatment.......We dont even have any legal protection as a cold blooded murder would have ....Its so sad to know that anyone can make allegations and half the time its false. And the bon Dr. Evals are always the same recomondations IPN . Its very disturbing to know just how many nurses cant find work after IPN is done......Who is in charge of making sure allegations are even found to be a true and ligete reason one is guilty of anything...