Drug addicted nurses - page 8

I am a nursing student and in one of my classes we have recently talked about nurses and substance abuse. I think that it is hard for me to wrap my brain around the issue. My questions are: 1.... Read More

  1. by   LoriAlabamaRN
    Quote from Bipley
    Granny....

    We disagree. I have seen numerous commercials of "just say no" and in none of them did I see the suggestion to report others and especially parents. The theme of the message was, "don't do this to yourself." Don't start the addiction process, don't go with the flow, be a unique person and it is okay not to do drugs.

    There have been NO presidents or 1st ladies I have respected in many years. This is NOT about respect for anyone. This is about respecting self. Nothing more and nothing less.

    AND.... if a kid out there has an addicted parent it is HIGH time they broke the rule of silence and told an elder. I wish I would have done that when I was a kid. Maybe things would have been different. Protecting the addict is a thing of the past, not something to be embraced today and especially by a child living under the abuse of addiction.

    Perhaps when it comes to addicted parents we need to look to the rights of children OVER the rights of an addict. Kids have rights too, they merely need to be acknowledged.

    Look, both my parents were alcoholics. My mom was an alcoholic/addict and died of such. Perhaps if I would have made an issue out of it as as child she would have lived a full life. I don't know. But what I do know if that she died quite young. A sad, needless death.

    I actually resent the fact that you would have a child hide his parents addiction from those that could help the CHILD.

    While I agree with you that the program is ineffective, I completely and totally, 1,000,000% (yeah, I know.. not possible to disagree 1,000,000% ... but I do anyway) disagree that children should not speak up when their parents are addicts.
    I couldn't find anything about reporting your parents in it either...
    http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reag...ust_say_no.asp

    although Bipley, I do agree with you about children reporting parents. I think it would help a lot of families who otherwise wouldn't deal with their problems.
  2. by   lpressley
    To: Boysmom32
    I read your post and just wanted to let you know that there is a way you can get treatment paid for by the state. I am a licensed chemical dependency counselor at Managed Care Center for Addictive/Other Disorders in Lubbock, Texas. If you contact a Department of State Health Services funded treatment center , and you're not working ,you sould qualify for treatment services paid for by the state. Treatment centers that are funded by the Department of State Health Services operate on a sliding fee scale and if you tell them you're unemployed and have kids, you should qualify for state funded treatment services or only have to pay a percentage. Dont let your pride or ego exaggerate your financial resources when doing the financial assessment. Most treatment centers/counselors would be willing to work with TNPAP to help you meet their requirements. I've worked with several nurses that were going through TNPAP to preserve their license. You can email me with any questions, I will be glad to help you get placed in a program.
    L. P. LCDC
    Last edit by sirI on Dec 8, '05 : Reason: full name
  3. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from Bipley
    Granny....

    We disagree. I have seen numerous commercials of "just say no" and in none of them did I see the suggestion to report others and especially parents. The theme of the message was, "don't do this to yourself." Don't start the addiction process, don't go with the flow, be a unique person and it is okay not to do drugs.

    There have been NO presidents or 1st ladies I have respected in many years. This is NOT about respect for anyone. This is about respecting self. Nothing more and nothing less.

    AND.... if a kid out there has an addicted parent it is HIGH time they broke the rule of silence and told an elder. I wish I would have done that when I was a kid. Maybe things would have been different. Protecting the addict is a thing of the past, not something to be embraced today and especially by a child living under the abuse of addiction.

    Perhaps when it comes to addicted parents we need to look to the rights of children OVER the rights of an addict. Kids have rights too, they merely need to be acknowledged.

    Look, both my parents were alcoholics. My mom was an alcoholic/addict and died of such. Perhaps if I would have made an issue out of it as as child she would have lived a full life. I don't know. But what I do know if that she died quite young. A sad, needless death.

    I actually resent the fact that you would have a child hide his parents addiction from those that could help the CHILD.

    While I agree with you that the program is ineffective, I completely and totally, 1,000,000% (yeah, I know.. not possible to disagree 1,000,000% ... but I do anyway) disagree that children should not speak up when their parents are addicts.
    First, you have see the TV commercials which are thirty second spots. Try going into the school programs. Second, you may resent all you wish. I grew up post WWII. A large number of children were indoctrinated to turn their parents into the authorities, during WWII and post that period. Using children to provide evidence, by turning their parent in, violates our rights under our Constitution. And I am not advocating a child hide his suspected parent's so called addiction, I object to the violation of our rights.

    And by the way, my mother was an alcoholic. She never admitted to it, never sought treatment. And I never forced her to. I just accepted her, with all her faults, she was my mother.

    Grannynurse
  4. by   Balder_LPN
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    One of the corner stones of the "Just Say No' is that children were encouraged to report anyone, including parents, who used drugs. This was one of the main reason's I did not nor do I now support it. And it is an oversimplistic program that has had a minimal effect on drug usage. And I have three grandchildren, one of whom just completed this program

    Grannynurse
    Actually, the report the parents was a conerstone of the LAPD's Drug Abuse Resistance/education (DARE) Program. This program is mostly discredited (by the fact that schools using it did not have lower rates of drug abuse than schools with no/different drug abuse awareness programs) and it has been discontinued by many areas it was once well entrenched, including LA county, where DARE originated.
  5. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from Balder
    Actually, the report the parents was a conerstone of the LAPD's Drug Abuse Resistance/education (DARE) Program. This program is mostly discredited (by the fact that schools using it did not have lower rates of drug abuse than schools with no/different drug abuse awareness programs) and it has been discontinued by many areas it was once well entrenched, including LA county, where DARE originated.
    Well, I guess it proves the point, I've always maintained: Florida is a socially backward state. Hate to tell you this, DARE is alive and well, here in Florida. I just attended a school program put on by my grandson's fifth grade class and officers of the Charlotte County Sheriffs Department, using DARE.

    Grannynurse
  6. by   krisssy
    Quote from EDValerieRN
    I didn't mean to come across as over-simplifying the matter. I think that at the DEEP DOWN CORE, one has to choose to stop, not to use, and get help.

    I understand that after one makes that choice, a lot more goes into recovery and sobriety than just saying no and quitting. I didn't mean to minimize the importance of therapy, rehab, and support, because I do realize how important these things are. I think we all do.
    Thank you EDValerie RN,
    I am sorry that I misunderstood you. We are in complete agreemenent. Krissy RN
  7. by   krisssy
    My dad was a functioning alcoholic and a pill addict. He was also the most loving father you could ever imagine. He worked hard, made a great living, and was kind and loving to everyone. He was the best human geing I have ever known. The only thing he didn't do was protect my sister and I from my mom who was NOT an addict, but mentally ill and abused us emotionally. First of all, as a kid it NEVER would have occured to me to turn my father in anywhere. I adored him, and my greatest fear was that he would disappear from my life. He eventually died a few years ago. He died from an unrelated death at 81. I never went to DARE or JUST SAY NO. I am sure they didn't exist then. BUT I never would have wanted him taken away from me, and I never would have "turned him in" no matter what. Being an addict did not make him a bad dad. He loved me with all his heart and never did anything to hurt me-only himself. I was not mature enough to understand about the illness of addiction. If he were alive now, and the drugs or alcohol were affecting his mental and physical health, I would have an intervention. As a child, I knew nothing about what his problem was or what it meant. All I knew is that I loved and needed him so much. To hurt him by turning him in to the authorities would have hurt him and me much more than anything he ever did while taking pills or drinking. I do not think it is the place of a child to turn his or her parents in. There are other family problems and aLL KINDS OF ABUSE THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE ADDICTION. It is up to the adults who see what is going on to do what is necessary to HELP the parents and the family.
    My mother was very ill mentally, and everyone knew it. No one did a thing. She was the problem, not my dad. Just because someone is an addict does not necessarily make them a bad person to be taken away from their kids.
    Krisssy RN
    Last edit by krisssy on Dec 8, '05
  8. by   Balder_LPN
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    Well, I guess it proves the point, I've always maintained: Florida is a socially backward state. Hate to tell you this, DARE is alive and well, here in Florida. I just attended a school program put on by my grandson's fifth grade class and officers of the Charlotte County Sheriffs Department, using DARE.

    Grannynurse
    Thats to bad. DARE is alive and doing more poorly by the year locally. Some schools have droped it and others still use it.

    from the website http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n1432/a05.html?397

    Federal judge Virginia Phillips, in a case involving DARE America's libel suit against Rolling Stone magazine, ruled that there was "substantial truth" to the charges that DARE had sought to "suppress scientific research" critical of DARE and had "attempted to silence researchers at the Research Triangle Institute, editors at the American Journal of Public Health, and producers at 'Dateline.NBC'

    AND
    DARE's feel-good photo opportunities are no substitute for effective drug education. American children deserve something more than a drug program that fails to persuasively inform and warn them of the danger of narcotics. Politicians, school officials, and police need the courage to admit that DARE is a dud.

    and from another website rapidnet.com

    Another key element in the DARE program is Values Clarification, a process by which children are reprogrammed to set aside their parent's values and determine for themselves the values in life they wish to hold. It was the brainchild in the mid-1960s of social "scientists" -- in particular, Louis E. Raths, Merrill Harmin, and Sidney B. Simon. The Wall Street Journal clearly defines what is meant by values clarification:

    "Teachers should never try to teach children correct values. To tell a student stealing is wrong or that kindness and loyalty are good values, would be, according to Values Clarification, to manipulate and coerce a student. Teachers should help students discover and clarify their own personal values instead of trying to force someone else's values on them."
  9. by   grannynurse FNP student
    [QUOTE=Balder]Thats to bad. DARE is alive and doing more poorly by the year locally. Some schools have droped it and others still use it.

    from the website http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n1432/a05.html?397

    Federal judge Virginia Phillips, in a case involving DARE America's libel suit against Rolling Stone magazine, ruled that there was "substantial truth" to the charges that DARE had sought to "suppress scientific research" critical of DARE and had "attempted to silence researchers at the Research Triangle Institute, editors at the American Journal of Public Health, and producers at 'Dateline.NBC'

    AND
    DARE's feel-good photo opportunities are no substitute for effective drug education. American children deserve something more than a drug program that fails to persuasively inform and warn them of the danger of narcotics. Politicians, school officials, and police need the courage to admit that DARE is a dud.

    and from another website rapidnet.com

    Another key element in the DARE program is Values Clarification, a process by which children are reprogrammed to set aside their parent's values and determine for themselves the values in life they wish to hold. It was the brainchild in the mid-1960s of social "scientists" -- in particular, Louis E. Raths, Merrill Harmin, and Sidney B. Simon. The Wall Street Journal clearly defines what is meant by values clarification:

    "Teachers should never try to teach children correct values. To tell a student stealing is wrong or that kindness and loyalty are good values, would be, according to Values Clarification, to manipulate and coerce a student. Teachers should help students discover and clarify their own personal values instead of trying to force someone else's values on them."[/QUOTE

    Charlotte, Sarasota and Manatee Counties all have problems with teenage drug addiction and alcohol abuse problems. We also have problems with our students passing FICA testing and graduating from high school. The answer of our Board of Education and our Sheriff's Department is to use the DARE program. I and my daughter and SIL have taken it upon ourselves to teach our children about illegal drug abuse. And we do not use any of the cute catch words so popular with DARE. I have told my 14 year old granddaughter, that yes I tried weed, when I was 19. I also told her it was not a pleasant mind altering experience for me. She has expressed little interest in trying drugs and I hope she keeps this in mind, when she enters high school next Fall.

    Grannynurse
  10. by   gianna2111
    In no way am I bashsing any nurse. I myself have legal issues and board issues. I just think that by going to the board instead of having the intergrity to approach that person in private and give them the chance to turn things around or you WILL GO TO THE BOARD. I just think that to cross state lines to report a nurse who entrusted all nurses on this board is evil and malicious. The girl will do one of three things. Get caught, Go to Jail, or hurt a patient. Nothing good will come of it. She has to learn on her own. I reserve my situation anymore due to people that are on here seeking to report nurses to boards.
  11. by   Bipley
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    First, you have see the TV commercials which are thirty second spots.
    I have. And what you claim isn't there. It also isn't there at the link provided by another.

    Try going into the school programs.
    The link was posted, it wasn't there.

    Second, you may resent all you wish. I grew up post WWII. A large number of children were indoctrinated to turn their parents into the authorities, during WWII and post that period.
    Addiction is a family illness, not a personal one. We aren't talking about accusing people of something they aren't, we are talking about a major illness that harms children.

    Using children to provide evidence, by turning their parent in, violates our rights under our Constitution.
    Oh really? Please provide proof of this. Show me where it says in the Constitution that a child should not be encouraged to say no to drugs and if they have problems at home they are not permitted to express those problems to school staff? EVEN WHEN ASKED. I'll wait for you to post your proof.

    And I am not advocating a child hide his suspected parent's so called addiction, I object to the violation of our rights.
    Sure you are. You most certainly are advocating a child hide his suspected parent's addiction so it won't violate the PARENT'S rights. And I'm still waiting for you to post the part of the constitution to defend your claim.

    And by the way, my mother was an alcoholic. She never admitted to it, never sought treatment. And I never forced her to. I just accepted her, with all her faults, she was my mother.
    I wanted mine to live and I wanted her to live a happy life. I *did* force her into treatment several times. She didn't want to get better. I can still accept someone for who and what they are while wanting them to seek treatment for a deadly illness and live a happy life.

    We could not possibly disagree more on just about every issue discussed in these posts.
  12. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from Bipley
    I have. And what you claim isn't there. It also isn't there at the link provided by another.



    The link was posted, it wasn't there.

    Sorry, I didn't post a link. And I suggested that you go to a few school programs, not visit some website.



    Addiction is a family illness, not a personal one. We aren't talking about accusing people of something they aren't, we are talking about a major illness that harms children.

    Dear me, then we should remove every child from any home that might harm the child or children, just to save them. According to you, I should have turned my mother in, she drank and it impacted on my life. And don't forget, she suffered from a major illness.

    Oh really? Please provide proof of this. Show me where it says in the Constitution that a child should not be encouraged to say no to drugs and if they have problems at home they are not permitted to express those problems to school staff? EVEN WHEN ASKED. I'll wait for you to post your proof.


    It doesn't say anything in the Constitution about a child reporting a parent. It does give the parent certain rights. And if you think that encouraging a child to talk to the school resource officer is the right thing, try to remember the impact that this will have on the child, the parents and society in general. In a misguided attempt to save a child you are potentially destroying a family, placing the child in the foster care system, that has an amasingly poor track record. And anyone in the school district who asked my grandchildren about anything that goes on in our home, they will be facing a lawsuit. And I guantee I will win.
    Sure you are. You most certainly are advocating a child hide his suspected parent's addiction so it won't violate the PARENT'S rights. And I'm still waiting for you to post the part of the constitution to defend your claim.



    I wanted mine to live and I wanted her to live a happy life. I *did* force her into treatment several times. She didn't want to get better. I can still accept someone for who and what they are while wanting them to seek treatment for a deadly illness and live a happy life.

    We could not possibly disagree more on just about every issue discussed in these posts.
    Either you learn to accept your parent's illness or you will be frustrated to no end when they do not wish to seek treatment. You can't live another person's life and trying is a waste of time and energy. And you haven't accepted her illness, if you continue to force her into treatment.

    You are right, we couldn't agree on any issue discussed in this thread. You want to be police officer, judge and jury. I don't want to be any of them. And I also do not want my grandchildren being encouraged to report me or their parents for any suspected drug use. It is not the schools business and maybe they should spend more time and money on teachinh children reading, writing and math, instead oof how to be a snitch on their parents.

    Grannynurse
  13. by   gianna2111
    I understand what you are saying and I agree it is a family issue, however to go after a nurse as so far as to cross reference a name which is what someone sent me a thread that they did just that. They cross referenced her name, then reported her to the board. I simply dont agree. I live this life myself and I am staying clean. She has to want to do this on her own. I think to report someone by tracking them down puts a downer on this board because you cant share freely. They say in NA and AA that what is said here stays here. I see your point if she has children but to go after her paycheck. That will do nothing but make her use even more. There are other means such as warning her first to get the help she needs or you will go to the board. To just up and go is viscious attack on her and her family due to lack of paycheck on top of everything else. She has to hit rock bottom on her own to finally want and get the help. Obviously if I see a nurse at work using I would report to the charge RN or Director but this board is confidential. It should stay here only. What can I say. Nurses eat there young. Its a fact. Whoever did report her must feel proud now.
    I dont agree at all. There is interventions, tell her to check in to rehab etc before you go to board. This is why I dont share anything about myself on this board any further. It is taken and ran with. Sad.

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