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Did I do the right thing?



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No. 70
Old Jul 08, 2009, 10:56 AM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
I keep trying to wrap my brain around it...and I dont understand it. Part of me...can see maybe how some of this works,..but it still doesnt make sense. I feel like I was lied to ...bc I was lied to. Now...I listen when he calls....I listen when his kids call...and when his mom calls.....and I am now thinking he is feeding us all a line of BS and maybe ....they have to deal with it. But I ...just dont. So...I think....until he does get it together Id be better off just cutting off the ties until he deals with this stuff. I dont even think he can establish a relationship with his mom and kids till he deals with all this stuff...so I am just probably feeding into his pity party. I know you guys have probably had alot of friends kinda walk away out of your life when things kinda got rough.....so ....I guess.....while I have learned a tremendous amount from you guys......maybe......I can help you can understand WHY some have walked out of your life too. You guys were and still are successful, smart , well educated , personable......and we dont understand. I ...probably like alot of your friends, wonder if I am still gettting manipulated or lied to. When I asked my friend if he had a problem....he made me feel guilty or bad I had even asked. then when I found out he TRULY did have a problem...I felt lied to....and then felt like I had to question everything he said...or everything he tells anyone to screen them for lies. I know all this stuff is so complicated.....but when you feel like you are having to internally screen everything for truthfullness...it cant be healthy for anyone. So.....I know he is a good guy. But....I think....it would just be better to just stay away for a few months till he gets more of a grip with his life. Then maybe he can deal with his kids,...and then his family....and when he is more sober...add friends back to the mix. And I have heard from a few people ....that had hard feelings bc friends just scattered by the wayside after your "intervention". I hope you guys realize...maybe they just didnt want to complicate things,...and that they probably didnt want to make things worse for you...and that maybe....they felt like I do. That you'd be best left to sort through your problems and primary family members issues befor eyou added friends to the mix. I want to thank each of you....while I still dont fully understand this stuff...I do have a bettter idea of it. I want to thank you for sharing your stories and insight. If my friend was as far along as you guys are in your acknowledgement...Id stick around.....but he isnt. So I cant see myself helping him ...so I think I am going to do the best thing I can do.....leave him alone to sort out his issues.I dont want it to seem like I reported him and then walked away...it isnt like that. I feel guilty...really guilty I reported him. But...I cant make his get control of his life....what I can do.....is walk away and let him focus all his time and energy into dealing with his issues. And maybe .....this is what happened to some of the people in your lives too. And now....that you have reached the point in your recovery....I bet they'd like to hear from you.
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No. 71
from Ginger45
Old Jul 08, 2009, 11:23 AM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
I am kind of late to this, but being just plain stressed out or burned out can cause some of those symptoms. I use the bathroom frequently because I have an overactive bladder. But as I have always said, "Drug test me anytime, I don't care, no way am I going to risk my license for drugs."
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No. 72
Old Jul 08, 2009, 04:14 PM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
Originally Posted by exnursie View Post
You need to keep these 3 things in mind ( the 3 c's of alanon)
1, You did not cause this
2, you cannot cure him
3, you cannot control what he thinks , does, says...

I admire your desire to be involved, but in all honesty,for someone who is not an addict to try to understand the though processes and the behaviors that an addict uses is very difficult to grasp and instead you should look more into alanon and how they deal with addicts.
Right now...I think...he just needs to concentrate on him. So...I am just going to leave him be for awhile. Let him sort stuff out and in a few months or weeks....try to see whats up. I mean..until everybody sees what he is going to do....we cant help. whats that old saying? God helps those who help themselves...so hopefully he will see this as a way to a better life.
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No. 73
Old Jul 08, 2009, 04:19 PM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
Originally Posted by Ginger45 View Post
I am kind of late to this, but being just plain stressed out or burned out can cause some of those symptoms. I use the bathroom frequently because I have an overactive bladder. But as I have always said, "Drug test me anytime, I don't care, no way am I going to risk my license for drugs."
Hmm...I dont understand. What do you mean? Being stressed out can cause you to become an alcoholic or addicted to drugs? I mean.....I guess stress may play a part....but I am not sure what you mean. From what I have read their is a big physiological component that kinda gets activated if you are predispositioned for addiction. I dont understand what u mean......just bc people go to the bathroom alot...nobody thinks there on drugs.....hell Id think they had a UTI before Id think they had a problem with drugs or etoh.
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No. 74
from jackstem
Old Jul 08, 2009, 10:05 PM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
Check this out:

http://www.nicd.us/thediseaseconcept.html

One of NUMEROUS articles on variety of topics dealing with addiction from the National Institute on Drug Abuse.
http://www.nicd.us/ALCOHOLISMandADDI...NCYatNICD.html
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No. 75
from jackstem
Old Jul 08, 2009, 10:15 PM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
Originally Posted by Keysnurse2008 View Post
Right now...I think...he just needs to concentrate on him. So...I am just going to leave him be for awhile. Let him sort stuff out and in a few months or weeks....try to see whats up. I mean..until everybody sees what he is going to do....we cant help. whats that old saying? God helps those who help themselves...so hopefully he will see this as a way to a better life.
Keys...you're right to let him concentrate on him. But instead of just "going away", learn what you can about how this is affecting you. Based on your questions, comments, confusion, anger, "hurt" over comments, etc., you have been deeply affected by all of this. I urge you to consider talking with a counselor to learn why you are having these strong feelings. SOMETHING is going on. By focusing on your friend and his disease, you're avoiding the more important issue(s), your issues.

The above paragraph may have caused an emotional, visceral response (and then again, maybe not). More confusion mixed with anger would be expected. If this is so, things need to be looked into if you want to become more capable of dealing with your friend's disease as well as the patients you will face with the disease of addiction.

As for God helping those who help themselves? This is a disease in which the patient is incapable of "helping themselves", especially in the early stages. God provides us with each other for that help.

Jack
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No. 76
from jackstem
Old Jul 08, 2009, 10:58 PM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
Originally Posted by Keysnurse2008 View Post
Hmm...I dont understand. What do you mean? Being stressed out can cause you to become an alcoholic or addicted to drugs? I mean.....I guess stress may play a part....but I am not sure what you mean. From what I have read their is a big physiological component that kinda gets activated if you are predispositioned for addiction. I dont understand what u mean......just bc people go to the bathroom alot...nobody thinks there on drugs.....hell Id think they had a UTI before Id think they had a problem with drugs or etoh.
Yes, just because people go to the bathroom a lot, people DO think they are on drugs. A sign of substance abuse/addiction in a health care professional is frequent trips to the bathroom. That's where I did most of "dosing", both at home and everywhere else. The fact that you would think UTI before addiction means you lack the knowledge base to conduct an in-depth assessment and differential nursing diagnosis of a patient's presenting symptoms that might make an accurate diagnosis of the cause in a patient who presents with trauma, domestic violence, and any other number of signs associated with substance abuse and addiction. That's not a criticism, it's an honest observation. It also is a good example of what happens in the addict. Just as you aren't aware of your lack of knowledge about specific signs and symptoms of the disease (because like most other nurses, you haven't received appropriate or adequate training about the disease), the addict isn't aware of their inability to recognize their addiction. The difference between a non-addict and an addict in this regard? The non-addict is capable of learning what they don't know...while the addict is actively using and for the first several months of abstinence in early (mostly "forced" recovery) their brain isn't capable of learning from their negative consequences or retain the information about their disease...because of the brain chemistry and structure alterations. And when do we conduct most of the treatment for addicts? In the early stages when they have difficulty learning. And then we're surprised when they relapse? Of course we are, because we lack education about the disease. That lack of education can be excused in the non-health care professional. It is inexcusable in the professional.

Granted, if the schools aren't training their students (and they're not...medical, nursing, or any other discipline), they do have an "excuse". But once they leave school, the responsibility is now the individual clinician's. What do most nurses do when it comes to CEUs? They pick the cheapest method of obtaining the bare minimum number of CEUs, choosing topics they LOVE and ignoring the topics they don't care for or think they don't need. (I don't work in addiction treatment...why do I need to know this stuff?) Because almost a third of hospitalized patients are admitted as a result of substance abuse or addiction (pancreatitis, cirrhosis, heart diseases, GI diseases, infections, etc. can all be a result of SA or CD). Over 50% of all ER admissions at trauma centers are there as a result of SA and CD. So the "average" nurse WILL be dealing with addicts all the time. Couple that with a 10 - 15% addiction rate (depending on the study) in the general population, a 15 - 17% rate in nurses, and a 15 - 20% rate in anesthesia providers, the "average nurse" will work with an impaired colleage more than once in their career.

AND, the disease of addiction doesn't just adversely affect the addict. If affects family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, and communities. But most of those dealing with significant repercussions in their own life as a result of someone else's addiction don't recognize it in themselves. It comes out in other ways...usually in physical illnesses as a result of unrelieved stress (irritable bowel, anxiety disorders, depression, OCD, control issues and controlling behaviors, insomnia, relationship dysfunction and failures, abusive relationships...over and over and over, to mention but a few. The non-addicts become addicted to the addict...to controlling or "helping/saving" the addict. Many many health care providers...ESPECIALLY nurses enter the profession as a result of an unhealthy relationship with an addict...usually a parent or sibling. They are going to "help" society. I'm not saying that is EVERY nurse or doctor. But it is a larger number than you would think.

Once you learn as much about how this has affected you and learn healthy ways to deal with that...THEN you will be an effective nurse for your patients with the disease AND your friend. By saying...HE'S the one with the problem, NOT me! You are repeating the mantra repeated by those most affected by the addict (friend, family or colleague). It's what my first wife said more than once when I went through treatment. It's the reason she didn't participate in the family program. It almost cost our daughter her life, because her mother learned nothing from our experience with my addiction. It wasn't HER problem! SHE wasn't sick! So when Kim's disease became active, her mother made all the same mistakes with Kim as she did with me. She's an intelligent nurse who started a couple of successful companies and sold them for serious money. But she still doesn't "get it". Thank God Kim's step-dad knew HE didn't get it and recognized Kim's Mom didn't get it either. It's what saved Kim's life! I'll always bee grateful to him.

Use this time while your friend is in treatment to discover what's going on in you...or not. But if you don't, you'll never be able to wrap your brain around this...and your patients (and any other addicts in your life) will suffer for that. You're not bad...stupid...or a moron. If that's what you get out of all of this.....wow! I'm willing to go to the may with you (or anyone else). But if it becomes clear that you're not really following the suggestions you're getting. That's when I call it quits. We're not even close to that right now.

The ball is in your court.

Jack
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No. 77
Old Jul 09, 2009, 03:00 AM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
Keys - Hello - It's late, and I just wanted to say that I am glad you are there for your friend through all this. I got caught for diversion back in August of 1999. I had gone through a very nasty divorce, and since I had started using on a daily basis, I had alienated so many of my friends and family. I figured that of the ones that knew me well, it wouldn't take long for one of them to realize what I was doing. After I got caught, it was almost like they (esp. fellow nurses) thought it was like I had the plague or something and they would be looked at too, kind of guilt by association.

I had very few friends who stuck by me, I so much hated to tell my dad, that I asked my mom to call him and tell him after we had crossed the line into another parish while on my way to rehab. I was always a daddy's girl, and that was the phone call I never made myself place before I went in.

I am glad you are there for your friend. With everything going on, he may not be in a very good "place" right now. He will be angry, whether it is anger towards himself, to you, to any body. Lord knows I was - and I knew I didn't have the right to be angry to others, it's not like I was set up, anything like that. I was just stupid.

You have given him something he will appreciate, either now or later in recovery - your friendship. Even if he isn't in the plaace to apppreciate it right now, he will.

As an addict, thanks for being there for him. Some friends just don't a lot of times, it is hard living with "us". Like I said, there weren't many there for me then and I hated it going inro rehab with no support systems. He will meet other addicts while in treatment, but I appreciated having one stand by me then.

Anne, RNC
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No. 78
Old Jul 09, 2009, 08:58 PM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
Originally Posted by sissiesmama View Post
Keys - Hello - It's late, and I just wanted to say that I am glad you are there for your friend through all this. I got caught for diversion back in August of 1999. I had gone through a very nasty divorce, and since I had started using on a daily basis, I had alienated so many of my friends and family. I figured that of the ones that knew me well, it wouldn't take long for one of them to realize what I was doing. After I got caught, it was almost like they (esp. fellow nurses) thought it was like I had the plague or something and they would be looked at too, kind of guilt by association.

I had very few friends who stuck by me, I so much hated to tell my dad, that I asked my mom to call him and tell him after we had crossed the line into another parish while on my way to rehab. I was always a daddy's girl, and that was the phone call I never made myself place before I went in.

I am glad you are there for your friend. With everything going on, he may not be in a very good "place" right now. He will be angry, whether it is anger towards himself, to you, to any body. Lord knows I was - and I knew I didn't have the right to be angry to others, it's not like I was set up, anything like that. I was just stupid.

You have given him something he will appreciate, either now or later in recovery - your friendship. Even if he isn't in the plaace to apppreciate it right now, he will.

As an addict, thanks for being there for him. Some friends just don't a lot of times, it is hard living with "us". Like I said, there weren't many there for me then and I hated it going inro rehab with no support systems. He will meet other addicts while in treatment, but I appreciated having one stand by me then.

Anne, RNC
I am pretty niave when it comes to this stuff.....I admit it. jack said he thought that I should perhaps see a counselor to see why it bothers me. I dont think I really have to do that. A counselor might tell me I have trust issues bc when I was a child my dad said he was going to take me fishin and then he didnt. But.....that isnt it. In the ER....and the pods( critical care) ....we all are very close.....like a family. We trust each other . And ....we all .....I have 10 coworkers reading this everyday with me and some tidbits ...are from me and some are from my coworkers. But....we all feel guilty. We are like a second family....and we didnt notice that things had gotten this bad.....we all didnt notice a problem. So...we all feel a huge amount of guilt...bc he is calling all of us several times a day....and we understand how out of control and upside down his life is. But...for me.....I am distancing myself somewhat till he is further along in the program....and calmer. I have a busy busy life, just found out my mom has cancer ( monday)...my son got in a wreck over the weekend and is in Pt rehab...my bettter half wants the living room painted and the garage...my daughter is moving back home ....and my coworkers.....are not working. they are busy breathing down my neck reading this thread over my shoulder. GO BACK TO WORK NOW!!!!!!!!
Now......this thread....has helped alot of us here. I have 10 coworkers standing here reading this with me everyday. Some comments are from them...some from me. But we all feel the same. He is part of our dysfunctional second family here. .....and we all feel guilty to varying degrees...that we didnt notice...that there was a problem...tilll....it almost cost him his license. that.....is where all this is coming from....in all of our comments. We are all very tight nit.....we know everything about all of each others lives....and we trust each other. he lied to us......but we let him down. we didnt recognize there was a major issue...till it slapped us in the face. And the bathroom deal......I have 10 people reading this thread......and nine out of 1o of us said if we saw a coworker making multiple trips to the bathroom we'd think UTI, renal calculi...etc...not drugs. Only one said they'd think drugs....and jack....I am sending her for a drug screen now. LOL. But....we all.....feel like we let him down. He will still have all 10 of us there for him....some more so than others depending on whats going on in our own lives...and we all plan on going to one of the alanon meetings at the end of teh month. Our unit secretary is looking for one of the ones listed as "open " for us. But.....speaking for me....and my unit of cohorts that have posted here under my name.....thank you for sharing your insights, your knowledge and your links...and your own personal stories. It helped. What is behind our posts....jack.....is good old fashioned guilt. We are a dysfunctional functional family here at work. Quirky personalities,...19 degrees between all 10 of us.....and we didnt even notice there was a problem till it slapped us in the face and he almost lost his license.
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No. 79
Old Jul 09, 2009, 10:38 PM

Default Re: Did I do the right thing?
Hello - I am so sorry to hear about your mother's illness and your son. They will be in my thoughts and prayers as will you.

Anne, RNC
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