Why have you decided to become a NP and not a Doctor? - page 4

Just what the title says.... Read More

  1. by   OllieW
    Quote from RockMay
    Watered down doesn't even begin to describe how horrible NP education is.

    You're mistaking NPs for PAs.
    NOPE. I taught ACLS and PALS for 10+ years and I failed more PAs than nurse techs (in the military we had nurse techs and Res take ACLS and PALS).
  2. by   RockMay
    Quote from OllieW
    NOPE. I taught ACLS and PALS for 10+ years and I failed more PAs than nurse techs (in the military we had nurse techs and Res take ACLS and PALS).
    Since when to CNAs take ACLS and PALS? Your claim is fictitious.
  3. by   jaycam
    Quote from RockMay
    Since when to CNAs take ACLS and PALS? Your claim is fictitious.
    I don't know about you, but where I live a nurse tech is a nursing student, and when I was in school we were encouraged to take ACLS , especially if we worked as techs.
  4. by   NurseLauraM
    Quote from RockMay
    Since when to CNAs take ACLS and PALS? Your claim is fictitious.
    Are you serious? It is written right in her post that this was in the military. Nurse techs are more autonomous in the military, therefore they are encouraged to take ACLS. I really shouldn't have to explain this to you, since you are supposedly a PA and all
  5. by   jaycam
    Quote from RockMay
    RNs are amazing, but NPs lack the most basic education necessary to even be considered a legal prescriber. Nursing does not include that level of care. All NPs must cease their reckless practice and return to their roots of nursing.
    Look, we get it. Sometime, somewhere, an NP pissed in your Wheaties. My NP is so much better than the DO at her practice. She actually listens to me. I find most NPs have better bedside manner than your average MD. It makes sense as nurses start seeing patients as under classmen, well before any MD/DO/PA student would see one. We're taught patient centered care. We're also taught patient advocacy, like knowing our meds well enough to question orders. We're taught critical thinking skills like how to prioritize our patient loads. There's a reason a smart MD knows to trust their experienced nurses and collaborate with them. By the time they even start to see patients, a nurse who started school at the same time would have years of licensed work under their belt. They've seen those meds, passed them, know their interactions and indications. Saying they don't know what they're doing at any level is like dismissing the owner of facebook because he doesn't have a degree. They got their experience the good old fashion way, by being there and putting in the time.

    In a world where MD students are pressured to take specialty training just to be able to pay off their loans, NPs make great PCPs and fill the ever widening gap left behind by providing those services. When you solve the problems of expense of schooling, lack of student spots, and pressure for MDs to specialize, then maybe more NPs would consider becoming MDs, until then all your doing is blowing hot air at the very people you dislike, without true justification, without solutions, and wasting your time. More and more states are recognizing NPs and giving them prescribing rights. EBP shows that NPs have similar outcomes to MDs. You're really not backing your point up.
  6. by   Jules A
    Quote from jaycam
    It makes sense as nurses start seeing patients as under classmen, well before any MD/DO/PA student would see one. We're taught patient centered care. We're also taught patient advocacy, like knowing our meds well enough to question orders. We're taught critical thinking skills like how to prioritize our patient loads. There's a reason a smart MD knows to trust their experienced nurses and collaborate with them. By the time they even start to see patients, a nurse who started school at the same time would have years of licensed work under their belt. They've seen those meds, passed them, know their interactions and indications. Saying they don't know what they're doing at any level is like dismissing the owner of facebook because he doesn't have a degree. They got their experience the good old fashion way, by being there and putting in the time.
    I would agree with the above 100% if NP schools still required actual hands on RN experience which to the best of my knowledge is rare now. Nursing experience imo justified our light version of actual diagnostics and prescribing education.
  7. by   jaycam
    Quote from Jules A
    I would agree with the above 100% if NP schools still required actual hands on RN experience which to the best of my knowledge is rare now. Nursing experience imo justified our light version of actual diagnostics and prescribing education.
    My perspective may be skewed because I've got a few years before I can even get my BSN, let alone a DNP. The market where I live is actually competitive enough, you need time as an RN to get into a brick and mortar program around here. The online programs that you can do locally also have clinical hour requirements as well. Even if I go straight through, by the time I got a DNP I'd have a good 5-6 years under my belt before being able to get a DNP. Probably longer as I want to build up my knowledge base a bit before deciding on if I want to.
  8. by   Dodongo
    Quote from RockMay
    RNs are amazing, but NPs lack the most basic education necessary to even be considered a legal prescriber. Nursing does not include that level of care. All NPs must cease their reckless practice and return to their roots of nursing.
    Wow. Someone is a bit off the deep end here. I'll agree that some schools should be shut down. But some are, dare I say it, pretty good. They require sufficient RN experience, clinical hours, etc. They aren't just in the game to make money off of those desperate enough to apply. But to disregard an entire profession that has been providing great care for decades is beyond extreme. Somebody is coming off bitter...
  9. by   core0
    Quote from NurseLauraM
    I'm also not a fan of online NP school, but be aware that this isn't exclusive to nursing. You can find an online program for almost any degree and there are actually a number of online PA programs (source at the bottom).

    I know many of my former classmates, colleagues and I believe that online nursing school poorly prepares students. However this is based on anectodal evidence. I would love to see some actual research into how graduates from B&M schools compare to those from online programs. Have any of you found any? I'm seriously asking


    The Best Online Physician Assistant Master's Programs of 216
    Did you actually read the link that you posted. Those are all post PA program masters for PAs that graduated from non masters programs. There are a number of PA programs that have an online component, but ARC-PA standards would prohibit an online program due to requirements regarding student assessment.
  10. by   Dodongo
    Almost all the online NP programs require visits to campus for hands-on experiences - standardized patients, simulations, skill labs, etc. You'll find most are called "modified distance" programs as the lectures are online, the clinicals are able to be scheduled in your area, and then trips to campus are required throughout the program. U of W has a modified distance PA program currently, and Yale is proposing their own. It's the way of the future and it is not inherently bad or "lesser" than driving to lecture and suffering through distractions from the professor and fellow students. Many medical schools are structured in a similar fashion.
  11. by   babyNP.
    Simple: I did not want the lifestyle of a doctor or the debt. I'm very happy doing what I do.

    I believe I shall poke the dragon (end of the year and all that) and tell poster RockMay that a new grad neonatal NP is far superior to a new grad PA. We have the RN experience with a program exclusively devoted to neonates, whereas the PA might be lucky to have an elective in neonatology. This is why there are fellowships for PAs being created currently because their education doesn't allow them to walk out the door compared to a NNP.
  12. by   Malenurse1235954
    Just my personal pet peeve. The title should ve np vs physician. Physicians shouldnt have exclusive rights on the word "Doctor," the majority of NPs are being trained at the doctorate level.
  13. by   Palliative Care, DNP
    Quote from Malenurse1235954
    Just my personal pet peeve. The title should ve np vs physician. Physicians shouldnt have exclusive rights on the word "Doctor," the majority of NPs are being trained at the doctorate level.

    I believe nurses often choose the wrong hill to die on. I couldn't care less if I'm never referred to as Dr. at work. I know what I have achieved. My husband is a pharrmD and doesn't use the title either.

    What do I find important? Creating one path to becoming an RN. Streamlining graduate programs. Students not being responsible for finding their own preceptors. Safe patient to nurse staffing ratios. I could keep going but the point is our profession has bigger fish to fry.

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