PA/NP to MD Bridge?? - page 3
Does anybody think that there will ever be a bridge program like that? I think it would be a great idea. Anybody else?... Read More
May 26, '10Quote from just_causeinteresting....where is this program....?First PA to MD/DO program has now been approved.. takes PA with at least 5 years of experience followed by roughly 2.5 years of school and then residency.
May 26, '10Quote from BS, NPThe NP programs I am familar with require pathophysiology and pharmacology (the rest of the sciences are prerequisites taken at the undergraduate level). Those two classes are integrated into medical school as well as MANY others. Med students take at the doctorate level (and PA students at the master's level usually) anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology, microbiology, biochemistry, physical diagnosis, lectures in all areas, and clinicals in all areas. NP school is missing the vast majority of those didactic science courses at the graduate level.so....let me get this straight.......NP education = 2 science courses needed in medical school? so, if I go to med school and take 2 classes (does this have to be specific courses, btw?) I'll be equipped to start treating patients...?...now, how did you formulate that equation...???? is that in the 'multi-skilled tech's manual'???
when you get out of diapers and do more than take somebody a warm blanket, maybe I'll consider your ......
experienced opinion on this, but even then it's doubtful....
When did I ever say that if you take 2 courses in medical school that you are fully equipped to start treating patients? I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I simply stated that very very few MSN courses are directly applicable to the courses taken in medical school.
And you apparently have no idea what MSTs do so as I can't even remember the last time I took a warm blanket to someone - that's what the nurse aides are for.Last edit by foreverLaur on May 26, '10
May 26, '10Quote from UNCpsycGuyhey...thanks...UNC guy...!! just curious....Hey BS,
The PA-DO bridge is with LECOM. It was created by a DO that was first a PA.
you gotten into the BSN program yet....????Last edit by XB9S on May 28, '10 : Reason: TOS
May 26, '10Hey BS,
I am finishing my last pre-req (AP2) right now and should be starting this Jan I am pretty excited get into a program full time for once. Looking at either UNC again or a private program through Duke here which only gives an RN but since I already have my BA I don't think it will hold me back too much in pursuit of the the NP.
haha, Laur isn't too bad....We're all pretty biased. She is just a BIG fan of the PA way. I have seen her posts over on the PA forum and SDN. I even had some dissonance with the the NP vs PA route since I have my BA already. Butttttt I have some really great NP schools here in the area and UNC's BSN program is just amazing (seriously impressive)....Plus, I am ready to get my hands dirty!
This PA-DO Bridge, while at first glance sounding like a great Idea, isn't the best for everyone. The program is 2 years and 10 months and you must have been a PA for 5 years already. Plus, you still take the MCAT and all the pre-reqs for regular med school. Considering there are already 3 year MD/DO programs out there in which successful applicants are entering without advanced medical training I do not see the huge benefit. One difference b/t the two is that with the PA-DO you can choose any specialty vs the original 3 year option in which you were locked into a FP only residency. However, if you just go to med school first.... you save yourself both a lot of time and a LOT of money in this degree chase. In the end the NP/PA/MD will still be able to prescribe/diagnose/treat and will be as good a clinician as THEY want to be.
BTW, BS, are you an NP in the ER or in a FP? Either way nice to meet you! and hopefully I can be in your shoes one day!
ChuckLast edit by USN2UNC on May 26, '10
May 26, '10UNCpsycGuy - do you have a link to more info on the LECOM program? I can't find any information on the PA-DO program on their website - just the regular 4 year program and the 3 year primary care program.
May 26, '10Sorry no link. That was just info straight from Emed and physasst over on the PA site. Physasst actually knows the guy and the pres of the AOA. They said the info will be released to the public in about 2 weeks. Also, there are only 12 spots for the program.
May 27, '10Quote from BS, NPPerhaps I did fly off of the handle a bit. My bad. Nonetheless, everything in my post was correct.thanks for taking the time to delineate the differences and share your insight.....
to clarify....I'm not trying to imply my coursework was the same as a physicians....I'm saying the content was based on treating a patient from a medical perspective rather than from nursing....as I said the program was DIRECTED from the medical model (we are obviously treating patients medically)...of course there was plenty of nursing integrated into it.....I do not have a DNP.....nor am I advocating the DNP be considered equal to that of medical school...(so, I don't know where that response came from)....I still can't understand how it would clinically benefit me to do it in the first place......in general I see it as a means of applying doctorate credentials behind one's name with the content in place......and I agree there isn't a way to bridge current programs to a medical school follow through.....I was responding to others claims about NPs and PAs that weren't all accurate......there's no need for you to condescend or discredit MY educational experience here......by towering over it with yours......
May 30, '10Quote from USN2UNCThis PA-DO Bridge, while at first glance sounding like a great Idea, isn't the best for everyone. The program is 2 years and 10 months and you must have been a PA for 5 years already.
This is not accurate. They take PAs straight out of school. However, they do give preference to those with previous experience.
May 30, '10Quote from platon20Yep, I spoke before the release. Straight out of PA school it is. Sorry about the hearsay!This is not accurate. They take PAs straight out of school. However, they do give preference to those with previous experience.
May 30, '10Quote from wowzaTens of thousands? Give me a break man. Sounds like you "fluffing" a little yourself there buddy. I would be careful saying something like that if I were you. Your buddies might ask you to prove that.The medical model is a strong basis on basic sciences (pharm, path, phys etc) with tens of thousands of hours of clinical training where you work admitting and working up patients.
May 30, '10Quote from JstandIt's pretty simple math actually. Med students, during clinical years, are expected to work the same hours as the residents. Even if we counted only 75 hrs/week for med students (to keep below the 80 hr avg limit), 75 hrs/week x 49 weeks (there's usually a couple of weeks of break, but not much) = 3675 hrs during third year alone. Fourth year, hours are pretty similar (especially with sub-I's, aways, etc), but there's more vacation time (around 8 weeks if you look around at various curricula). Once again, 75 hrs/week x 40 weeks (accounting for maybe a research elective taken) = approx. 3000 hrs. So, a med school graduate, without even going through residency has around 6000 hours of clinical training, if not more.Tens of thousands? Give me a break man. Sounds like you "fluffing" a little yourself there buddy. I would be careful saying something like that if I were you. Your buddies might ask you to prove that.
Then, we get to residency, where even though there's an 80 hr/week avg restriction, residents often go over this limit. However, let's assume 80 hrs/week for easy calculations. 80 hrs/week x 49 weeks/year x 3 years = 11760 hours of clinical training, if not more. So, 11760 hrs + 6675 hrs (from med school) = 18510 hours of clinical training. Here's the same info presented in a more organized way:
M3: 75 hrs/week x 49 weeks = 3675 hours
M4: 75 hrs/week x 40 weeks = 3000 hours
Residency: 80 hrs/week x 49 weeks/year x 3 years = 11760 hours
M3 + M4 + Residency = 3675 + 3000 + 11760 = 18510 hours of clinical training.
That's just for the 4 years of med school + a 3 year residency and it's assuming that no one ever goes above the work hour restrictions (and we know residents go over the limit very often). Add on several thousands of hours of clinical training when longer residencies and/or fellowships (which are pretty common these days) are undertaken. You can easily see physicians approaching/exceeding 25000 clinical hours of training before practicing independently. So, wowza was pretty accurate in his statement. No fluffing up there. Hope this clears things up for you.
May 31, '10Quote from wowzaIt's cool....sorry if I sounded like a jerk myself...Perhaps I did fly off of the handle a bit. My bad. Nonetheless, everything in my post was correct.