NPs practicing as DRs

Specialties NP

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  1. Is the current DNP a "Clinical Doctorate"

    • 53
      Yes
    • 72
      No

99 members have participated

This has been a heated discussion between some of my friends and I, so I thought I would bring it to the forum.

Should people who are going through a DNP programs and taking the SAME test we all took for our MSN - NP for national certification think their education 'doctorate" is a clinical doctorate?

Until there is a national standard and an elevation of the test (think along the USMLE) then I think anyone who thinks their DNP is a clinical doctorate is a joke.

your thoughts. . . . .?

I wasn't trying to belittle the PA training model, just point out that it isn't always the best route, depending your career goals or interests. I think for psych (and midwifery), advanced practice nursing is the superior choice.

I don't see the issue with a DNP prepared NP being called Dr.; Doctors of Optometry can be called Dr,. dentists can be called Dr., even psychologists can be called Dr. and no one is confused, everyone know what they are and what they do, so why not the DNP prepared NP? As long as the person clearly identifies himself/herself as an NP there's no room for confusion. MD's and DO's own the titles "Doctor of Medicine" and "Physician", not Doctor in general. There's a double standard about this because it is about Nurse Practitioners; I see this as plain discrimination against the profession. I do feel that the NP has the obligation to clarify his/her role during the introduction though. I'm currently in a DNP program and I intend to use the title Dr. when I'm done. I did my FNP clinicals at an Army facility and all the DNP prepared NP's over there were addressed as Doctor. For myself it is about being proud of my profession and having obtained a terminal degree. You don't see the DNP as a clinical degree now because it is mainly for people who already have a MSN; but if you look at the curriculum of a post BSN DNP program it is indeed very clinical. I already have a MSN-FNP and I still have to do 510 clinical hours during my DNP program. Anyways, I'm happy about my choice of going back to school for the DNP :-)

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I don't see the issue with a DNP prepared NP being called Dr.; Doctors of Optometry can be called Dr,. dentists can be called Dr., even psychologists can be called Dr. and no one is confused, everyone know what they are and what they do, so why not the DNP prepared NP?

*** It is pretty unusual for a patient in a hospital to have a dentist or optometrist or psychologist walk into their room and introduce themselves as doctor.

Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

In some states, there are restrictions for any APN to legally use the title, "Doctor" (in a Clinical setting).

The following is an excerpt from the '08 Pearson Report:

...seven states (Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Mississippi, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Oregon) have statutory restrictions against doctorally educated NPs being addressed appropriately.

Pearson Report.

The Pearson report also stated "Impression #1: We need to legislatively remove NP-degrading discrimination. NPs must remove any and all statutory restrictions pro- hibiting those of us with university- earned doctorate degrees from being addressed as “doctor.” I have no argument with the six states (Arizona, Illinois, New York, Penn- sylvania, Texas, and Virginia) that have legislatively allowed qualified NPs to be addressed as “doctor” as long as they clarify that they are NPs. After all, we don’t want anyone to confuse us with physicians and we are proud to be known as NPs. However, seven states (Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Mississippi, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Oregon) have statu- tory restrictions against doctorally educated NPs being addressed appropriately."

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

PAs get a 4-6 week rotation through psych. FNPs get a full semester of psych didatic which builds on our previous didatic psych and clinical psych rotations in our RN education. That is one reason it is difficult comparing apples to apples. Many RNs have worked for years in ICUs, ER, cardiology etc before going to NP school.

Look at the job postings. I can't find even one ad for a psych PA but many for psych NPs.

Now that being said. With the psych education of the two groups. Do you really think either one is prepared to manage psych patients? I don't.

A pysch NP receives much more education and training, sorry core0. What you surmise is simply not true.

The same goes for ortho, ER or any other specialty. You MUST have additional training that is provided on the job, period (for both PA and NP).

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Many RNs have worked for years in ICUs, ER, cardiology etc before going to NP school.

*** Lots of those going to PA school have significant health care experience as well, many as RNs. While it is true that many NPs have years of experience as RNs, it's also true that many do not. Lots of NPs these days never worked a day as a RN. We have DNP NP students who to clinicals in our hospital. Some have years of beside RN experience and some entered the DNP program directy from their BSN program. I find it easy to tell them apart.

You don't see the DNP as a clinical degree now because it is mainly for people who already have a MSN; but if you look at the curriculum of a post BSN DNP program it is indeed very clinical. I already have a MSN-FNP and I still have to do 510 clinical hours during my DNP program. Anyways, I'm happy about my choice of going back to school for the DNP :-)
Are you trying to say that 510 clinical hours is a lot? I think that is what some people are saying- the hours are insufficient especially when compared to what the DNP is trying to mimic.Let me give you an example: in a medical residency you would get more hours than all the hours in your "doctorate" in just 7 weeks- and medical clinical training lasts 5-12 years (thus somewhere between 40-75x more clinical hours).

I will say it again and again: in the end, it is the State Board of Nursing who will decide what degree is needed to be a NP in your state. That is where this battle can be fought (for those of us who oppose the DNP-as-NP-entry-to-practice) and won. This is where the assault on ADNs has been successfully resisted for many decades.

The DNP can absolutely exist as far as I am concerned, as a "terminal degree" for those grad-degree nurses who don't want to go the PhD route. There is absolutely NO rationale for the current iterations of the DNP to be the mandatory entry point to advance practice nursing. It should be an option, something to bolster an academic or administrative resume, NOT a de-facto requirement.

Beware the Consensus Model, and other nationally "recommended" alterations to State Nurse Practice Acts. Buried within are the assaults on the ADN RN and the MSN NP.

agreed. I don't mind that the DNP exists and over time it will be interesting to see if it evolves into a useful degree. I think it's ludicrous to insist that all NPs get DNPs, though. The MSN for point of entry is just fine and has been fine for years.

*** It is pretty unusual for a patient in a hospital to have a dentist or optometrist or psychologist walk into their room and introduce themselves as doctor.

Maybe you haven't worked around many psychologists? In my neck of the woods, they all refer to themselves as doctor in a clinical setting, including hospitals. And why shouldn't they? They have the terminal doctoral degree in their field (and believe me, getting a PhD in clinical psychology is no walk in the park).

I just made the decision to renew my AANP membership. Part of it is the benefit angle, i.e. I can renew at student rate, discount on my cert (if I do AANP instead of/along with ANCC), etc. My hesitation was that my $$ goes to de-facto support of AANP's push for the DNP as entry to NP practice. However, I also think I may be able to stir up a 5th comumn within the org to oppose this, along with efforts at the State level. We'll see.

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