NP w/no desire for RN? - page 30

Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is... Read More

  1. by   CHATSDALE
    I worked with a nurse who was working prn trying to get trhough pa school
    we all have to make decisions 'THAT WORKS FOR US'
    there are a lot of roads ou tthere we choose our own
  2. by   subee
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    I worked with a nurse who was working prn trying to get trhough pa school
    we all have to make decisions 'THAT WORKS FOR US'
    there are a lot of roads ou tthere we choose our own


    Your point being? Sorry but I don't understand what the above means.
  3. by   Cyndee, MSN, NP
    Quote from CStaples/NNP
    :blushkiss
    Many NP's had no desire to experience nursing school, BSN, me included.
    There is a reason for this process.
    I discovered that my calling was in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit.
    My experince as an RN was vital to my MSN/NNP.

    I did have the pleasure of meeting an NNP who went straight thru w/o any RN experience.
    Before working as a NNP, she was required to work as an RN for several months. I watched her struggle. She could not even start an IV on our babies.
    So I say it again, there is a reason for this process!!!!
    OMG! I can't believe a NNP can't even start an IV on a baby!!! OMG!!! Our profession is being trashed by these inexperienced NP's!
  4. by   cgfnp
    Quote from UWSRN
    Go to med school! Part of being an NP is being the "nurse" in Nurse Practitioner. NPs have a different mentality than MDs and different responsibilities. If you have no desire for nursing that's fine... but it's telling you to go into medicine instead. NP education without the understanding and use of the RN license does not make for a good NP as many of us in my hospital and NP classes have been seeing in the past few years.
    Spoken like a true educator. I don't even know why we have to keep the redundant separate RN license. I have absolutely no problem at all practicing family medicine, no matter what anyone says about practicing nursing vs medicine. I do exactly what the MDs do. And frankly, my patients have better control of their diabetes, HTN, and cholesterol than the docs' patients do. And, I generate more revenue. I'm not as educated in medicine as a doctor, of course, so I consult with them when needed, as most NPs are supposed to. And, I started NP school before I even finished BSN.

    I dropped being the "nurse" in Nurse Practitioner as quick as I could. I don't start IVs or administer medications, I order them. I don't write nurses notes, I write progress notes. I don't report lab values, I interpret them. I don't write care plans, I write treatment plans. And, I don't know a single NP that does any differently. If they do, then they are no longer generating billing revenue, which makes administration unhappy. Hence the NPs that get less than RN wages and ruin the statistics for the rest of us keeping the salary offers low.

    Ideally, there would be a graduate program that trained only family practice and dropped the nursing part altogether. BSN or any other undergrad degree could be eligible, whether they had 50 yrs RN experience or not. The training would be MUCH better subsituting all the cultural diversity and nursing theory paper writing crap with, gosh I don't know.... maybe EKG interpretation, diagnostics, office radiology, and things you actually need in a family practice. Some will say, "this is a PA", and it is similar, but PAs do educational rotations in departments other than family practice, so the "master's in family practice" would result in a better prepared practitioner trained the entire 2 yrs in family practice. They could still collaborate with a MD to keep malpractice costs down and provide expert consultation for the difficult cases.

    In the mean time, we FNPs will have to practice for the first few years out of school very carefully no matter how much time we spent as a RN, consulting often until we teach ourselves the stuff we should've got in grad school instead of writing an APA style paper about the effects of bawling all over a patient.

    All in all, maybe this NP w/ no exp as RN topic would never have risen had the grad training been adequate in the first place. I mean, if the training was great, no one would need the RN experience to be competent, right?
  5. by   cgfnp
    Quote from amytheodd
    Unfortunately, it IS like this in the real world. I HAVE heard these kinds of comments directly to my face. Instead of "Good for you, its going to be tough, so best of luck". I get "Huh, you're going to crash and burn, hope you don't do it on my floor!". I have gotten this response from more than one nurse, so even though I am excited and happy to be on this journey, I just don't tell people anymore. Its awful hard to learn from APRNs about thier roles and how they feel about different aspects of thier job when you are scared to ask questions that reveal your DE status.
    Thank God, my Manager Mentor for my externship program is very supportive, and is looking to guide me not just to any experience, but the right experiences that will fill in my education and will expose me to positive supportive people.
    FYI, not all DE programs are created equal. I will have been working as an RN full time for two to three years when I graduate the MSN protion of the program. I took all the same pre-reqs, will take all the same BSN classes in the same amount of time, but my MSN portion is part time and designed specifically to allow you to work full time to get experience. I take all the same classes, and its not compressed, just the opposite.
    I'd like to be judged as an individual, or better yet, not at all. We've all had diverse experiences that have lead us here. Mine, for instance, included hospital volunteering, a microbiology degree and five years of research experience, most recently with phase one clinical trials in cancer immunotherapy. Is it the same as nursing? Nope. Is my experience relevant and critical thinking oriented? Yes. Is it underwater basket weaving? NO.
    I don't have anything against RNs taking time between BSN and MSN, if you have the luxury of time and its what you want, go for it. But my financial aid situation just wont allow it.

    *sigh* Flame away, I'm expecting it. Just hope that some people will be able to be supportive and helpful as well.
    Okay, so it's like that in your real world. That sucks!!! I've never had a problem... If they want to say something that ignorant to you, just step up to the plate and say something ignorant right back. XXXXX

    I agree with you in that I really don't care if someone wants to have RN experience or not. But it is ignorant to say that ALL need it or ALL don't.
    Last edit by sirI on Sep 11, '06 : Reason: TOS
  6. by   Cyndee, MSN, NP
    Quote from cgfnp
    Spoken like a true educator. I don't even know why we have to keep the redundant separate RN license. I have absolutely no problem at all practicing family medicine, no matter what anyone says about practicing nursing vs medicine. I do exactly what the MDs do. And frankly, my patients have better control of their diabetes, HTN, and cholesterol than the docs' patients do. And, I generate more revenue. I'm not as educated in medicine as a doctor, of course, so I consult with them when needed, as most NPs are supposed to. And, I started NP school before I even finished BSN.

    I dropped being the "nurse" in Nurse Practitioner as quick as I could. I don't start IVs or administer medications, I order them. I don't write nurses notes, I write progress notes. I don't report lab values, I interpret them. I don't write care plans, I write treatment plans. And, I don't know a single NP that does any differently. If they do, then they are no longer generating billing revenue, which makes administration unhappy. Hence the NPs that get less than RN wages and ruin the statistics for the rest of us keeping the salary offers low.

    Ideally, there would be a graduate program that trained only family practice and dropped the nursing part altogether. BSN or any other undergrad degree could be eligible, whether they had 50 yrs RN experience or not. The training would be MUCH better subsituting all the cultural diversity and nursing theory paper writing crap with, gosh I don't know.... maybe EKG interpretation, diagnostics, office radiology, and things you actually need in a family practice. Some will say, "this is a PA", and it is similar, but PAs do educational rotations in departments other than family practice, so the "master's in family practice" would result in a better prepared practitioner trained the entire 2 yrs in family practice. They could still collaborate with a MD to keep malpractice costs down and provide expert consultation for the difficult cases.

    In the mean time, we FNPs will have to practice for the first few years out of school very carefully no matter how much time we spent as a RN, consulting often until we teach ourselves the stuff we should've got in grad school instead of writing an APA style paper about the effects of bawling all over a patient.

    All in all, maybe this NP w/ no exp as RN topic would never have risen had the grad training been adequate in the first place. I mean, if the training was great, no one would need the RN experience to be competent, right?
    Don't forget the Adult/Geriatric/Pediatric/etc NP's! We get intensive training in our specialties. Maybe this is why PNP's are now making as much as the pediatricians!

    I totally agree about all that writing papers and theory BS!
  7. by   brownrice
    CGFNP:

    Amen! You are RIGHT ON with your message. Some may not like the direct approach, but yes, XXXXXXXXXXX. Those that can't stand the heat need to get outta the kitchen. There is something to be said for those with the courage to say it like it is, rather than back stab or complain behind someone's back about issues that can be dealt with head on. Perhaps this is why men seem to have better luck rising to the top?

    As for Theory, APA papers and the like, it's a ridiculous waste of time.
    Last edit by sirI on Sep 11, '06 : Reason: TOS
  8. by   MrsCleverclogs
    Wow I havent read the whole thread just this last page, but we do love ourselves dont we?
    Obviously you have lots of compassion and understanding of the poor underdog the RN. It goes beyond belief that you obtain the RN dont practice as an RN and then expect to be NP's-In fact I am speechless. No wonder the nursing profession is in such a mess if we are encouraging this practice.
  9. by   zenman
    Quote from subee
    Your point being? Sorry but I don't understand what the above means.
    There are lots of roads out there which is why Mapquest is popular!
  10. by   subee
    Quote from zenman
    There are lots of roads out there which is why Mapquest is popular!

    Navigating Mapquest is not a good analogy. The reason that CRNA programs require AT LEAST a year of intensive care experience speaks to the intensity of the program. They are not going to waste time teaching people how to read an EKG - you're supposed to know nursing skills before you even get there so they don't have to waste time teaching the basics. I see no reason why that logic shouldn't apply to NP's. MD's IMHO have a point when they oppose a practitioner unleashed on the public, able to prescribe meds with only three years of education and limited patient contact. Yes, there are lots of things we nurses do better with chronic care issues and we should be the preferred provider for many patients. However, I just wouldn't want to be that NP's patient until they have a few years of experience behind them. I still use what I learned from floor care every day in the OR. And that doesn't even address the people skills which take several years to hone.
  11. by   Selke
    Quote from subee
    Navigating Mapquest is not a good analogy. The reason that CRNA programs require AT LEAST a year of intensive care experience speaks to the intensity of the program. They are not going to waste time teaching people how to read an EKG - you're supposed to know nursing skills before you even get there so they don't have to waste time teaching the basics. ...
    :yeahthat:

    Ditto for CNM programs -- basic intrapartum skills, like reading and interpreting fetal monitoring, labor management, nursing skills like IV, caths, VEs, medication titration, assessment and monitoring of labor, medications, neonatal assessment and resuscitation, &c. These are overwhelming to learn from scratch without some L&D nursing experience. (The office gyne, AP, PP part is much easier and safer to get in a DE program without prior RN experience.) I've spoken with potential preceptors who tell me they will not take DE students because they don't want to teach an CNM student these basics but would be happy to have me. Ditto for CNM positions posted on listservs -- many state they will take a new grad with extensive prior L&D nursing experience.
  12. by   cgfnp
    Quote from Cyndee, MSN, NP
    Don't forget the Adult/Geriatric/Pediatric/etc NP's! We get intensive training in our specialties. Maybe this is why PNP's are now making as much as the pediatricians!

    I totally agree about all that writing papers and theory BS!
    This is true and something I hadn't thought of. Maybe the FNP needs to be a combo of the above, and just longer to compensate...
  13. by   cgfnp
    Quote from MrsCleverclogs
    Wow I havent read the whole thread just this last page, but we do love ourselves dont we?
    Obviously you have lots of compassion and understanding of the poor underdog the RN. It goes beyond belief that you obtain the RN dont practice as an RN and then expect to be NP's-In fact I am speechless. No wonder the nursing profession is in such a mess if we are encouraging this practice.
    I don't love or hate myself. I just tell it like it is. Why can't you see that RN practice is totally different from NP practice? Yes, in an acute care setting, the acute care RN experience would be great. But most NPs aren't trained to work in an acute care setting. So, if your argument is accurate, then experience as a doctor's office assistant would be just as imperative for a family practice NP, so why aren't we hearing how appalled you are that NPs don't have doctor's office experience?

    I'm assuming you were being sarcastic with the compassion for RNs comment. RN is a different, respectable role. Just because I think most don't need RN experience to be a primary care NP doesn't mean I hate RNs. That's like after reading my post, coming up with the conclusion that I hate spaghetti. I was a RN for 2 yrs before becoming a NP. And in my case, it helped tremendously in the ED. It did absolutely nothing for my primary care practice, however. It was just a different role and scenario.

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