NP w/no desire for RN? - page 26

Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is... Read More

  1. by   krisssy
    I have asked this many timesand haven't found anyone to really answer. So I am going to ask it in a different way.

    1. You graduate with a BSN in 1969.

    2. You work for two years as a school nurse teacher.

    3. You are certified.

    4. The job is discontinued state and then nationwide to to no funds.

    5. You can be a school nurse, but without the health ed end, the money is scarse.

    6. You get offered a job as an elelmentary school teacher. You love it, get a master's in it, and the pay is terrific.

    7. You become so good at it that you make teaching your lifetime career.

    8. Your husband of 32 years leaves you, and you take a refresher course in nursing. You love it, but 6 weeks experience is nothing.

    9. You look for a reentry program. They are very little and far beteween.

    10. Psych nursing is off limits without psych nursing experience.

    11. You get into an accredited online terrific school where going part time, you will end up with a MHPNPMS degree in 5 years. I read here that it is impossible to do without RN experience. The school says they are there to teach me my new job.

    12. No one is that keen on me getting a staff psych nursing job.

    In fact no one is keen with any plan I come up with except leaving nursing.

    Reactions? Advice? Any new people with some new ideas for me?

    Thanks AGAIN Krissy RN BSN MA Elementary Education

    When am I going to see an ad for a fellowship for a reentry nurse? Never? or more optimistically someday?

    Krisssy
  2. by   subee
    Quote from Pinoy2.0
    Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is finishing up her RN-MSN program and never really wanted to become an RN, but she really wanted to become an NP, so she went the RN route to become an NP (which I know you have to do).

    I know this is somewhat rare, but wondering are there any other NP's out there that looked at RN as kinda pre-NP school/clinical stuff in order to become an NP? Like, they may not be real thrilled with what they are doing (RN) but they know they have to do it in order to become an NP. Keep in mind I'm not saying you would hate being an RN or hate RN's or anything to that affect, but you dream has been to become an NP and RN school/work is a sort of necessary 'not the most enthusiastic' hurdle?
    Don't really see how you can do advanced practice nursing without doing some "nursing" to give you experience. Believe me, you are way behind the game without experience. You can't get good experience floundering around because you've developed none of the art or science of caring for people - not a diagnosis. Nursing isn't as "dumb" as you seem to think it is.
  3. by   traumaRUs
    I just got hired as a new-grad adult health clinical nurse specialist. The reason (I was told) that I got the job was because I had 14 years experience as a nurse: 12 as an RN and 2 as an LPN. As Siri said, you really, really need this experience as an RN (and preferably in a busy, busy hospital) in order to know what you are looking at. You need the basic health assessment skills. More important, you need intuition to KNOW when a patient is about to go bad, to be able to interpret trends and to be able to assess a patient and be able to put the whole thing together and formulate a plan that will work.

    This can't be done without RN experience and plenty of it. Personally, I think five years is the minimum amount of experience for an advanced practice nurse.
  4. by   markdanurse
    Quote from bruinlaura
    Ok, I think if I see this posted one more time my head is going to explode.
    1. I don't believe a degree in underwater basketweaving exists. And implying that any degree other than a BSN is stupid and easy is offensive. I just finished up my BSN and it was 100x easier than my first bachelor's degree (and I'm not going to an easy school).
    2. The acceptance rates for the programs I looked into were in the teens, they are NOT EASY TO GET INTO.
    3. DE students have to complete the SAME PREREQUISITES AS ANY OTHER NURSING PROGRAM and have to do well in them to get accepted. So no, you can't just go straight from your fictional BA in underwater basketweaving into nursing. It took me a year to get all those classes out of the way and I have a sciencey degree.
    4. Most places look for healthcare experience of some variety (such as EMT, CNA, etc), employed and/or volunteer.

    BTW, I do agree that experience is important. In fact, most people work during the MS portion of their programs (so that's about 1.5-2 years experience before they are NPs). And those that don't work are usually in clinicals all the time instead and thus have way more than 680 clinical hours. My program originally had about 2000 hrs (hmm, isn't that about what a PA gets), clinicals were 4 days a week for 1.5 years (which would have made it impossible to work). They just changed the program and cut the hours in half which is why I'm now taking a year off to work. Also, I will be able to continue working when I start back up again so I'll have 3 years of experience by the time I'm licensed as an NP.

    So maybe all the DE students aren't as stupid and inexperienced as you think they are.
    1. I do not believe DE students are stupid. You are saying that in this post...not I. The point I am making is that experience as a nurse COUNTS for something, which does not seem to be the mantra the DE students are carrying.

    2. I used the "underwater basket weaving" metaphor to imply a degree in something other than nursing, and not to insult you personally. I know that engineering degrees are much harder than a BSN, as well as many other degrees. But what does a business degree, an engineering degree, en elementary education degree, or an exercise physiology degree have to do with nursing or even becoming an NP? Those degrees do not adequately prepare one to become an independent healthcare practitioner.

    3. My philosophy is this...so what if programs like yours are not easy to get into? They shouldn't exist in the first place. They should not take someone with experience as just a CNA, EMT, MA, etc. with a bachelor's degree in something other than nursing and say, "Hey, in just over three years, you will be an RN, BSN, FNP, MSN and actively practicing in a complicated medical system." I would think differently if you were already a licensed RN and had a bachelor's degree in a different area with several years of nursing experience in something other than med-surg nursing. Then I wouldn't be so inflamed about programs such as yours.

    4. I know of no NP program that requires 2000 clinical hours like the PA programs...unless you are counting the hours to become a BSN also...which like I have previously stated is NOT the same animal as the graduate level NP clinical hours.

    5. So you'll have three years of experience by the time you're an NP? That is a good thing. But are we talking part-time or full time? And are we talking in areas such a ICU or ER, or are we talking med-surg?

    Bottom line is this...I'm not mad at you or any other student that does a program like yours. I am disappointed at our educational system for allowing such a program. I am disappointed in nursing as a profession for allowing this to happen. But I don't have a problem with you personally...so don't take it that way. It's just an opinion...whether it's right or wrong. And you know what they say about opinions, don't you?
  5. by   markdanurse
    Quote from krisssy
    I have asked this many timesand haven't found anyone to really answer. So I am going to ask it in a different way.

    1. You graduate with a BSN in 1969.

    2. You work for two years as a school nurse teacher.

    3. You are certified.

    4. The job is discontinued state and then nationwide to to no funds.

    5. You can be a school nurse, but without the health ed end, the money is scarse.

    6. You get offered a job as an elelmentary school teacher. You love it, get a master's in it, and the pay is terrific.

    7. You become so good at it that you make teaching your lifetime career.

    8. Your husband of 32 years leaves you, and you take a refresher course in nursing. You love it, but 6 weeks experience is nothing.

    9. You look for a reentry program. They are very little and far beteween.

    10. Psych nursing is off limits without psych nursing experience.

    11. You get into an accredited online terrific school where going part time, you will end up with a MHPNPMS degree in 5 years. I read here that it is impossible to do without RN experience. The school says they are there to teach me my new job.

    12. No one is that keen on me getting a staff psych nursing job.

    In fact no one is keen with any plan I come up with except leaving nursing.

    Reactions? Advice? Any new people with some new ideas for me?

    Thanks AGAIN Krissy RN BSN MA Elementary Education

    When am I going to see an ad for a fellowship for a reentry nurse? Never? or more optimistically someday?

    Krisssy
    Just go for it. Opinions are like bellybuttons...everyone's got 'em. A psych NP is a much different professional than an FNP...an FNP more heavily relies on previous hospital experience than a MHNP ever will. Working as a part-time psych nurse isn't a bad idea. You are already an RN, BSN. You already have some experience interacting with individuals. Why can't you work a little as a psych nurse? How can it possibly hurt you? You CAN become a psych nurse now by selling yourself...and NOT selling yourself short. Go apply for some positions...find out who the managers are and meet with them...explain your situation...you can do it! The point is perseverance is everything. You are in a really good position right now...utilize it.
  6. by   markdanurse
    Quote from EastCoast
    Why do people always compare PA school clincal hours to NP clincal hours. A good NP program that requires nurses to be nurses first will likely require less clincal because the person brings the clincal with them. It doesn't mean it's a bad program.

    PA programs are different. They are medical model based and I think you would be better prepared in gross A/P and surgery than NP programs.

    Well, to answer your question, we are comparing them only to show the bridge program students that without adequate experience as an RN prior to going to NP school, the current clinical hours in their programs simply aren't enough to prepare them to be independent practitioners. I use the PA clinical hours to show what SHOULD happen in current NP programs that accept students with a major in something other than nursing and no previous nursing experience, and honestly feel that these types of students should go to PA school instead. PA programs are GEARED towards teaching students who haven't been nurses first to become competent clinical practitioners. NP programs that accept non-nursing majors with no previous RN experience are NOT geared towards teaching such students. I also do not feel that NP programs that require nurses to be nurses first with good clinical experience need to raise their clinical hours...only the programs that accept non-nursing majors with no previous clinical experience.

    Again, just an opinion here...NOT a personal attack.
  7. by   bruinlaura
    Quote from markdanurse
    1. I do not believe DE students are stupid. You are saying that in this post...not I. The point I am making is that experience as a nurse COUNTS for something, which does not seem to be the mantra the DE students are carrying.

    2. I used the "underwater basket weaving" metaphor to imply a degree in something other than nursing, and not to insult you personally. I know that engineering degrees are much harder than a BSN, as well as many other degrees. But what does a business degree, an engineering degree, en elementary education degree, or an exercise physiology degree have to do with nursing or even becoming an NP? Those degrees do not adequately prepare one to become an independent healthcare practitioner.

    3. My philosophy is this...so what if programs like yours are not easy to get into? They shouldn't exist in the first place. They should not take someone with experience as just a CNA, EMT, MA, etc. with a bachelor's degree in something other than nursing and say, "Hey, in just over three years, you will be an RN, BSN, FNP, MSN and actively practicing in a complicated medical system." I would think differently if you were already a licensed RN and had a bachelor's degree in a different area with several years of nursing experience in something other than med-surg nursing. Then I wouldn't be so inflamed about programs such as yours.

    4. I know of no NP program that requires 2000 clinical hours like the PA programs...unless you are counting the hours to become a BSN also...which like I have previously stated is NOT the same animal as the graduate level NP clinical hours.

    5. So you'll have three years of experience by the time you're an NP? That is a good thing. But are we talking part-time or full time? And are we talking in areas such a ICU or ER, or are we talking med-surg?

    Bottom line is this...I'm not mad at you or any other student that does a program like yours. I am disappointed at our educational system for allowing such a program. I am disappointed in nursing as a profession for allowing this to happen. But I don't have a problem with you personally...so don't take it that way. It's just an opinion...whether it's right or wrong. And you know what they say about opinions, don't you?
    I'm glad you don't believe DE students are stupid. It may not have been your intention, but the underwater basket weaving comment implies to the reader that any idiot can become an NP these days and you don't have to work very hard to do so. You are not the first one to use that metaphor on these boards. Perhaps I mistakenly attributed the attitude of the previous commenter to you. Glad I misunderstood.

    Up until last monday the ACNP program at Columbia had over 2000 clinical hours (that doesn't include BSN, I agree that's a different ballgame). I thought that was totally awesome since critical care providers don't really have the luxury of time. My program drama is a bit off topic so I'm just going to leave it at that.

    I plan to work full time in an ICU. I guess that's a little off topic too though.

    Thanks for clarifying.
  8. by   krisssy
    Oh Markdanurse,

    Thank you for answering me. My situation is a little different I know. When I tried to find part time jobs before, the nurse managers said I needed Med surg first. Do you think it will make a difference that I am going to graduate school now? I even have to spend one semester doing clinicals in medicine. Do you think I should wait until after that course to apply for a job or just go for it now?

    Krisssy
  9. by   EastCoast
    Markdanurse,
    I think we share the exact same opinion but I think you read my post different than i intended..
    I was actually agreeing with your post but asking the age old question of why people like to say 'that's more clinical hours than a PA needs'.
    It usually is used to justify a bridge program with little clinical background.
  10. by   krisssy
    Quote from EastCoast
    Markdanurse,
    I think we share the exact same opinion but I think you read my post different than i intended..
    I was actually agreeing with your post but asking the age old question of why people like to say 'that's more clinical hours than a PA needs'.
    It usually is used to justify a bridge program with little clinical background.
    What do you mean by a "bridge program with little clinical background"?

    Krisssy
  11. by   EastCoast
    Bridge program:
    RN---licencse---MSN---boards--NP
    only clinical is academic.
    No non acadmeic nursing required prior to obtaining np.



    Get done with school...pooof... you're an NP.
  12. by   krisssy
    I am in an online MS Program in Nursing. (NP in Psych) The courses are HARD. NO BASKETWEAVING for sure! I was able to get in with very little nursing experience, no GRE's because I have another master's and no interview. Not only is the program difficult, but I love it. My advisor told me that I don't need experience, because THIS is where I am going to learn how to be a Psych. Nurse Practitioner. I graduated with a BSN in 1969, had two years of non hospital nursing experience in 1969-1971 and entered another career for 25 years. At 59, what am I supposed to do? I want to be a nurse. I cannot find any other way to get a reentry program or fellowship or intership program in psych nursing or even a job. If other nurses feel this is wrong, what would you suggest me do? Quit nursing? Do med surg when I don't like that kind of nursing? And that does NOT mean I don't want to learn and know about the med surg problems and conditions of my psych patients. I am a nurse for goodness sakes. Why can't a preceptor teach and help me? I already took a 6 week refresher med surg course. Any suggestiuons if you think I am doing the wrong thing would be welcomed. At 59 with an RN and a BSN, what else would you have me do? I am sorry if this sounds a little hostile, but I am tired of hearing complaints about people like me (except for some like Broiwn Rice-you are the greatest). Don't just say negative things-tell me what to do-advice-PLEASE! Krisssy

    Krisssy
  13. by   sirI
    krisssy, it really isn't the fact anyone doesn't understand and/or care. The fact is, you have an opportunity to work as an RN to gain the experience. You should take it. IF that's what you are wanting to do. Work med-surg if you can. If not, take a position in another area of nursing.

    I don't think anyone here is bashing you specifically.

    This is a thread about those in "general" not wanting RN experience before becoming an NP. It isn't about one "specific" individual.

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