NP w/no desire for RN? - page 23
Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is... Read More
Apr 23, '06Quote from marylyrici completely agree with marylyric!!!! if the nursing profession is not taken seriously, it's because our criteria for becoming nurses is lacking compared to other professions. when education level no longer matters, you have a problem. education does matter and should matter.Pitty, Nurses putting other nurses down. I see why the nursing profession is not taking serious by some other professions, Just listen to your comments about
Associate degree nurses. Associate degree nurses get much more hands on clinical than most Bachelor degree nurses and coming out of school are much better nurses on the floor. This group of NP OR want to NP or laugh out loud unbelievable
Apr 23, '06Quote from elkparktoo funnyUm ... All MDs do have doctorates (also DOs) -- An MD is a doctoral degree ... (Hint -- that's why they're callled "doctors" ...)
Apr 23, '06Quote from suzanne4are you kidding?I never heard of her either, and have been doing this too many years to count, and I teach as well.
Apr 23, '06Quote from scooterRN52WOW, i can't believe i just read this, how untrue. most women i know prefer to get married because they are in love. i know many RNs that wouldn't be caught dead marrying a doc. i don't know what kind of NPs you are familiar with, but the ones i know are intelligent, caring providers that would know exactly what to do and what to assess for.I tell all my friends not to get sick, because most of the nurses coming out of school today are either looking for a doctor to marry or think they are going to make a lot of money, meaning these nurses don't really care about the patient. I went to visit a friend the other day in a hospital after her surgery
and she is a nurse w/ a master's degree, she was appalled, her call light went unanswered, no one to help her get washed and she was on the bedpan for more than an hour. This kind of practice is horrible and I'm not looking forward to getting old, it doesn't help when administrator's insist on nurses
taking care of 10- 15 patients. Fortunately I work on in a specialty hospital
and usually have no more than 3-4 patients on night shift. Beleive me these nurses, the one that you are talking about who are overweight and still smoke, her patients probably have less complications and a lower risk of dying after surgery, than a newer nurse taking care of the same pt. I wouldn't want a NP taking care of me especially if she wasn't an RN first.
She certainly wouldn't know what to do or what to assess for.
Lets give some credit to the clinical nurse who usually knows what wrong with the pt. before the doctor, after all the RN at the bedside has a lot more time to see what is going on and knows what tests a pt. needs.
For your information I'm not overweight, do not smoke, and have practiced nursing in a hospital for about 14 years. If I went back for more education it would be, to become a CRNA, they make a lot more mony and get more respect than NP's or PA's . Why not just go to med school?
I hope if you need a nurse, that you will get one that enjoys bedside care
and has the knowledge to take care of you. Like I said, it is scary out there!Last edit by Nurse Ratched on Apr 23, '06 : Reason: TOS
Apr 23, '06This is a most interesting debate. I am an RN with only two years of experience as a school nurse teacher. When they did away with school nurse teachers, they did away with the pay too. So school nurse teachers became school nurses with a tremendous drop in pay. I was very young at the time, was offered a teaching job for good money, and I decided to take it. I enjoyed it for 25 years even becoming Teacher of the Year. I retired, and after a long hospitalization decided that I wanted to fulfill my dream in life -to be a nurse. I took a refresher course, and it wasn't long enough. I was unable to get a job in psych nursing which is what I want to specialize in. That was because I have no med surg experience. So now I am in a NP program with a specialization in psychiatric nursing. My guidence counselor believes that I will learn how to be a MHPNP by going to school for it. They (at my school) don't feel that nursing experience has anything to do with learning how to be a MHPNP.
I, on the other hand, have my doubts. So I am trying to find a job as a psychiatric nurse . I can't do that, because I have no med surg experience. I believe that I will get the med surg experience while in NP school. They have a one semester course doing a med surg clinicalship where we learn to check breasts, do internals etc. I will be working head to head with a FNP or a PA involved in medicine. The rest of our clinicals are psych oriented but deal with medication, pathology etc. I feel that this is the only way for me. I was thinking of taking a second med surg refresher course while I am doing this.
If I could do it all over again, this is what I would do. I have said it before, but I will say it agaIN. i WOULD first GO TO A THREE YEAR DIPLOMA SCHOOL, WHICH THEY had when I was 17. I would live, breathe and work and learn in that hospital. I would come out fully prepared having great clinical skills (unlike the skills I had coming out of my BS program (NOTHING). Then I would work in peds or med -surg and get my BS in Nursing at the same time. Then I would get a job in my specialty as a psych nurse. I would go for my masters while I was working. Then I would be a MHPNP and probably work as a consultant in a hospital.
Unfortunately, I took the wrong career choice and made the wrong husband choice. This is the only way I can fulfill my dream. As long as I continue to live, I may as well do something that makes me happy and helps others.I know I would be good at it. When I am sad about my divorce and my broken family, I think about nursing, and I feel like I have a good reason to be happy and not sad. I know I have it in me to really help people with mental health problems If I graduate and get a job, and others give me a hard time, I don't know if I will be strong enough to cope with it. Any ideas?
Thank you. Krisssy
Apr 23, '06Quote from desanobsnYou probably need to go back and look at my list and then you'll see that everything I wrote will transition to NP school. I know because it is. I asked my teacher wife about this and she laughed and said that she could teach study skills for geography, for example, and that the students would not be able to transition those same skills over into history class. However, I know a physician who told me that being a CNA was valuable experience as a physician. Some people get it; some don't. Your point of view does not stand up to logic, but you can have your own opinion. In your one year of experience, you were just barely getting oriented so I can see where you are coming from. In comparision, imagine the wealth of experience I'm bringing to the table.this is not rocket science. you make it sound like a NP is just thrown out there. when you graduate as an advanced practice nurse, that means you have gone to school for a minimum of 6 years. don't you think in that time, you would have a good understanding of everything involved? if you don't, then somethings wrong. i believe that if you plan to practice mostly in a hospital (which i don't), then get some experience if that's what you feel like you want to do, but i don't think it's necessary. before i began working the floor, i thought the same way, you HAVE to have experience. it wasn't UNTIL i worked on the floor that i realized everything i was doing had nothing to do with being an NP. so i asked my friend who was already in the NP program, "of everthing i'm doing on the floor, what translates to helping me in the NP program", she said basically.....nothing, and she was right. now that i'm in the program, she's totally right. it's two entirely different jobs.
Apr 24, '06Quote from desanobsnHi! I have been reading all your posts. I am curious. In my case, do you think I can go to nurse practitioner school for Psych? My experience : graduated with a BSN in 1969-I am a certified RN in my state, I worked as a school nurse teacher for two years after graduation, followed by 25 years as an elementary school teacher and then an RN 6 week refresher class a few years ago. I am now taking my first course in a NP Master's program to be a MHPNP. Do you think that, in my case, I can be a PNP with no experience? I can't decide if I should get a job while going through the program? thanks for your advice,i can't even tell you how much i relate to what your saying!! i graduated at the age of 46 with a bsn in may 2004, after staying home with three children for 18 years. i NEVER, NEVER, NEVER wanted to work as a floor nurse. i would have gone straight through the NP program if they would have let me. i worked exactly one year, almost to the day, on the floor, which is the amount of experience my university wants you to have. in that year on the floor what did i learn, to put in a foley and an NG tube on a real person instead of a model, 12 hr shifts really mean 14 hrs (and don't think your getting a lunch break either), a safe nurse to pt ratio of 1:5 is a fallacy, experienced nurses seem to despise new grads, and last but not least, nurses are generally treated like crap. if i had to come up with one word to describe the work envirnoment that i saw nurses tolerating, it would be ABUSIVE!!! i think it's very sad, because most nurses really want to do a great job, but how can you accomplish this goal when your working conditions are so poor. i don't know of one nurse that i worked with that left feeling like they were able to give their pts the care they needed. that's pathetic. is it any wonder there's a nursing shortage. i am now taking grad. patho and research and will graduate dec.2007 as an FNP. i am so happy to be back in school. with my new scope of practice comes the knowledge that i will be able to spend quality time with my pts, and give them the care they not only need, but deserve. i can't wait!!
Apr 24, '06Quote from zenmani agree, i have found my experience as an orderly (3 years) , student nurse, floor nurse (2 years) , ed nurse (3 years) , icu float nurse (1 year) , icu clinical instructor (7 years) useful on a daily basis. how can additional knowledge about patient care not make you a better np? i relied on my experience in grad school and now in practice, i believe my patients are better off because i was an orderly and floor nurse. in addition, the people i work with are better off as i have a variety of experiences.in your one year of experience, you were just barely getting oriented so i can see where you are coming from. in comparision, imagine the wealth of experience i'm bringing to the table.
Apr 27, '06Quote from krisssyHi krissy, in my opinion the answer is yes. i worked one year to increase my chance of getting into the NP program, although occasionally, they let students in without experience. in fact one girl that is in my research class has had no experience working as a nurse. she applied into the FNP program in feb. 2005, was accepted into the program the end of feb, and graduate from nursing school may 2005. she was about 8 mths pregnant. she started the FNP program fall 2005, so this is her 2nd semester, and has two more semesters. she is doing great in the program. she will graduate dec. 2006. so go for it, and good luck!!!Hi! I have been reading all your posts. I am curious. In my case, do you think I can go to nurse practitioner school for Psych? My experience : graduated with a BSN in 1969-I am a certified RN in my state, I worked as a school nurse teacher for two years after graduation, followed by 25 years as an elementary school teacher and then an RN 6 week refresher class a few years ago. I am now taking my first course in a NP Master's program to be a MHPNP. Do you think that, in my case, I can be a PNP with no experience? I can't decide if I should get a job while going through the program? thanks for your advice,
Apr 29, '06I certainly don't see anything wrong with somebody having the aspiration of becoming a NP without working as a RN. At the same time, if you worked in any other career field, experience will offer an education that will supplement your graduate degree. The same goes for NPs.
I chose nursing because after looking at the other options (PA, MD, DO), this was the one field where I could advance quickly and not spend excessive amounts of money getting there. The nursing model is also a more attractive one in that we aren't looking for a quick fix and primary prevention is key to the work. Sure, we may never work in surgery like PAs do, however we have varying levels of prescriptive rights and more autonomy in practice. RNs will always find a job in any area of specialty they want and can move around through many different settings. Anyone looking to go futher in their careers past the BA/BS degree should look at their options and make the best decision they can for themselves.
Personally, being a RN has never been a huge interest of mine. Bedside nursing is stressful and demands strict concentration on policies and procedures. We hold a great deal of responsibility in patient care and little time to spend with our patients. I typically carry a patient load of 8 on a specialty floor that handles overflow. So here I am caring for patients who have specific needs that I haven't been trained in. The supervisor is so out of touch with nursing at this point that she doesn't feel we need to be trained and learn as we go. This scares me. I worry that one of my paitents will be dead in the room, but because I'm so busy with one or two high acuity patients and overworked with paperwork that I won't be able to save them in time. Being a RN is a tough job. And working as a RN before pursuing an advanced degree, if nothing else, gives you some perspective on what it's like working on the floor or the ICU or ER or OR and appreciate the work that goes on when your patients aren't coming in for a well-check or follow-up visit.
So back to the original post... it's not a "bad" thing to go straight from undergraduate school to graduate school. Just like any other field it just gives you more insight an understanding behind the meaning of the work. I graduated in December 2004 from a BSN accelerated program and this week am finishing up my first semester in a FNP program. I work full-time and even pick up extra shifts to help pay for tuition and save for those semesters when I won't be able to work more than 2 days a week. FNP is already looking so good and appealing that it's hard to wait for those last few semesters to wrap up and move on to a new challenge. In the meantime, I'll keep picking up new skills and techniques that I hope will help as a FNP one day.
Yikes. That was one long post!
Apr 30, '06Quote from brownriceWhat an offensive post to experienced nurses!GO FOR IT!! Skip the RN time and don't look back. PA's aren't required to "do time" why should nurse practioners be required to do such? Also, something I've noticed as I investigated your question among nurses with varying degrees of experience:
The nurses that climbed their way up the hard way always seemed to think many years of experience were needed prior to becoming an NP. It's almost as if they were thinking, "I went through the punishment, and you should too". Luckily, this type of thought is changing, and these nurses who have worked being miserable with their two year degree for 30 years will soon be retiring. I had the unfortunate experience of being under their grumpy preceptorship during most of my BSN clinicals-- YuK! An interesting sidenote to this: most of these nurses were overweight, ate junk food at work all day, compained incessantly yet never did anything about their complaint, and took smoke-breaks whenever they could. This is the antithesis of what NP's stand for: mind/body holistic healthcare. No wonder these nurses never went past two years education.
May 3, '06This is my issue too. I am wondering if it is different in psych, which is where I am. I have had decades of experience in med-surg, critical care etc and I have always been focused on the emotional aspects of wherever I was. Now I am in a NP/Psych program and almost everyone but me has been working in the field. I know I can make a connection with a client and working with dementia will help me deal with "crazy people", I imagine. But the language, the theory, a therapeutic response.. I feel so horribly naive sometimes. We were watching a film about some disorder and I was almost overwhelmed by the pain evident in the client, but my class mates were laughing, knowingly. As we ourselves are the therapy, isn't experience necessary to gain the instinctive helping response. I can't just say "Let me consult the DSM or some other clinical text and get back to you tomorrow." I think it is different in psych and I am going to find a job in a psych inpatient setting for the next year while I am finishing up, even though I want an more independent role eventually.
May 14, '06I'm glad this issue was raised. I have had the same question.
I wish to become an NP. I could enter a direct-entry program with my BA in psychology, but I wouldn't be comfortable with that route. I have applied to an ADN program, and then I'd like to pursue an RN to MSN path.
You wanted to know if you could pursue the MSN without RN experience. You do need at least an ADN or Diploma, or you can apply to a DE program if you have a Bachelor's degree in another unrelated field. It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with.
I think that's basically what you wanted to know.