NP w/no desire for RN? - page 18

Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is... Read More

  1. by   zenman
    Quote from krisssy
    The fact that you never heard of Rosmarie Parse doesn't not mean she is not a famour nurse theorist. It just means that YOU never heard of her. Since you are a nurse, you should understand and know the theory behind which you practice. Do a search and find out how she was able to teach without having bedside experience.
    I was just wondering how she became so famous when I've never heard of her. Since I am a nurse, I do have a theory...several in fact...which guides my practice. One of them is even a nursing theory!
  2. by   zenman
    Quote from krisssy
    Do a search and find out how she was able to teach without having bedside experience.
    Ok, I went to her site and when I saw her picture with her hand under her chin, I just had to get out of there, LOL!

    I know "how' she can teach without any bedside experience...many do...
  3. by   marylyric
    Quote from ramiro_ac
    this is sarcasm......so the BSN makes one a better nurse than the ADN? dont all nurses take the same licensure examination?

    by your post then you could say than an entry level MSN-RN nurse is better than a BSN nurse, even both took the same exam.


    First, there is no way that they are going to relegate a RN with an ADN TO A tech status.Your Professor is mis- informed if she told you that, Probably just to make those who have a BSN feel better about themselves. A RN is a RN. Most programs that are 2 year programs, just happen to require more clinical time. I am not against a BSN, I have a BSN. What I am against is this information they give nurses who pursue BSN. When I started nursing, the ADN nurses could run rings around me because they had more clinical time.
  4. by   krisssy
    Quote from zenman
    I was just wondering how she became so famous when I've never heard of her. Since I am a nurse, I do have a theory...several in fact...which guides my practice. One of them is even a nursing theory!
    What nursing theory is your practice guided by?
  5. by   zenman
    Quote from marylyric
    First, there is no way that they are going to relegate a RN with an ADN TO A tech status.Your Professor is mis- informed if she told you that, Probably just to make those who have a BSN feel better about themselves. A RN is a RN. Most programs that are 2 year programs, just happen to require more clinical time. I am not against a BSN, I have a BSN. What I am against is this information they give nurses who pursue BSN. When I started nursing, the ADN nurses could run rings around me because they had more clinical time.
    Just to get you on the right track, the associate degree was created to prepare "technical" nurses...you can't change history. Pts and OTs did the same thing with PT assistants and OT assistants. The clinical time is not a very strong argument once you get the same amount of clinical time. Now you should be ahead with your additional preparation. Every additional course you have taken will be beneficial to you. Therefore, it is against all logic to say that an RN is an RN. And the fact that they all take the same exam or have the same license is a non-issue.
  6. by   zenman
    Quote from krisssy
    What nursing theory is your practice guided by?
    Betty Neuman
    Chinese Five Phases
    Quantum Theory
    Shamanic theory
    and Stings song "Fortress around my heart"
  7. by   krisssy
    Quote from zenman
    Ok, I went to her site and when I saw her picture with her hand under her chin, I just had to get out of there, LOL!

    I know "how' she can teach without any bedside experience...many do...
    Can you please explain to me what you mean? How can she teach without bedside experience? Krisssy
  8. by   krisssy
    Quote from zenman
    Betty Neuman
    Chinese Five Phases
    Quantum Theory
    Shamanic theory
    and Stings song "Fortress around my heart"
    I will look them up. I am really curious about whose theory you base your practice on. Thanks for answering. Krisssy
  9. by   marylyric
    Quote from zenman
    Just to get you on the right track, the associate degree was created to prepare "technical" nurses...you can't change history. Pts and OTs did the same thing with PT assistants and OT assistants. The clinical time is not a very strong argument once you get the same amount of clinical time. Now you should be ahead with your additional preparation. Every additional course you have taken will be beneficial to you. Therefore, it is against all logic to say that an RN is an RN. And the fact that they all take the same exam or have the same license is a non-issue.

    I disagree, your statement does not whole water. A RN IS A RN, they take the same exam. I will not discuss the history, but a RN is not a tech, there are those who would like to make it so a 2 year program would produce techs.
    I state again there are those RN's who have more clinical time in the associates program who can run rings around bachelor prepared nurses. Trust me I know. As Far as the exam being a non-issue. That exam is what states whether or not you can wear the RN behind your name legally. I hate to be the one to let you, it makes no difference unless you are going into some sort of area that requires a bachelor and even then a associate degree nurse can get a bachelor in a years time which is only 3 compared to 4 years. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a Associates prepared RN is just as legal as a Bachelor RN to practice nursing. sorry
  10. by   zenman
    Quote from marylyric
    I disagree, your statement does not whole water. A RN IS A RN, they take the same exam. I will not discuss the history, but a RN is not a tech, there are those who would like to make it so a 2 year program would produce techs.
    All I'm telling you is that the ADN was created as "technical" nurses. That's why I'm telling you it's really good to know history.

    I state again there are those RN's who have more clinical time in the associates program who can run rings around bachelor prepared nurses. Trust me I know. As Far as the exam being a non-issue. That exam is what states whether or not you can wear the RN behind your name legally. I hate to be the one to let you, it makes no difference unless you are going into some sort of area that requires a bachelor and even then a associate degree nurse can get a bachelor in a years time which is only 3 compared to 4 years. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a Associates prepared RN is just as legal as a Bachelor RN to practice nursing. sorry

    These are what you cannot use in any ADN vs BSN argument.

    1. Clinical time
    2. NCLEX
    3. Licensure
    4. Time required to get either degree (it's number of hours, not time)
    5. "We all have 'RN' behind our name and we'll all legal."
    6. "A nurse is a nurse."

    When you research these items and fully understand them we'll talk again. Sorry to get off track but I hate to see nurses not understand this, particularly if they are going on for an NP.
    Last edit by zenman on Feb 23, '06
  11. by   marylyric
    I will not refute your argument of why the ADN was created because I was not around when it happened such as yourself; and although I have heard that information before, I can not and will not debate that point without some research. Though,that is certaintly not the way it is now. those listings above are exactly what makes a RN an RN in todays society. I am sorry that you are still holding on to old ideas which are very outdated.
  12. by   zenman
    Quote from marylyric
    I will not refute your argument of why the ADN was created because I was not around when it happened such as yourself; and although I have heard that information before, I can not and will not debate that point without some research. Though,that is certaintly not the way it is now. those listings above are exactly what makes a RN an RN in todays society. I am sorry that you are still holding on to old ideas which are very outdated.
    You can drop the idea that I'm outdated, LOL...as I seem to be teaching you! Old as I am, I still go to school...and have taught in both ADN and BSN programs. It might help if you would find a school which teaches both programs and look at the differences. You will see that if there were no differences, then there would be little need for both.

    I'll give you some hints to help you with the others:

    1. Clinical time is OJT. Should you be a "clinical expert" when you graduate? Most professions think not. During this clinical OJT you are paying a school whereas when you get out you will be paid to do your OJT. You can also take someone will much lessor skill and teach them how to do much of the technical stuff in nursing. Now take two nurses, one with let's say 30 hours of liberal arts and nursing and one with 60 hours of nursing and liberal arts. If you stop both at 200 hours of clinical time, what do you have...one nurse with a lot more knowledge base to draw from. Plain and simple and no argument what so ever here. It is interesting to see that many companies value liberal arts grads above others. And so many complain about those "useless" liberal arts courses in nursing school!

    2. NCLEX is nothing more than a measure of entry level skills that show one is safe to practice...that is all...it has nothing to do with what degree you have.

    3. Licensure. Each state regulates many professions. Consider your drivers license as it is a good analogy. You have many different educational levels that hold one in their wallet or purse. It is just a piece of paper showing that you know the driving rules for that state and the state can regulate your performance.

    I guess I've pretty much answered the others, also. The "RN" means only that you have attained a minimum level of practice in order to be safe...if you pass the NCLEX and get your state license.

    It is the educational preparation that sets one nurse apart from another. Even though I have two masters, I find every day that I am learning new stuff (as I work on an FNP) that makes me a better nurse...in spite of 31 years of OJT!

    My wife, a school teacher, thinks our educational system is laughable. She is required to have a masters degree and she is not faced with life or death situations every day. What do I tell her???
  13. by   tinderbox
    Quote from cgfnp
    Helping people isn't worth mentioning to me as I think if you're in this profession, it's a given. I have a hard time believing anyone that says they'd rather work in any role than spend time w/ their family and do what they like to do (golf, fish, boat, etc etc etc). If you have a hankering for helping people then you can use your skills to volunteer if money is no object. But since money is an object (for me and my family at least) I choose to make the most of it I possibly can doing what I think is good and helpful. I don't think it's greedy to want my daughter to do without like I did when I was growing up.

    The dorky comment was just a joke... and if you noticed, I included myself in that dorky group as I am posting and responding to some faceless computer beings on a website.
    Wow. Your tone sounds a lot like those guys/gals over on the SDN website.

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