NP education - a rant - page 10

I came to the site today and saw lot's of posts of wonderfully excited people interested in becoming NP's. The vast majority of the tones of education were: "I have the opportunity to become and NP... Read More

  1. by   Gennaver
    Quote from sherrimrn


    I give up. Even my 13 year old could understand what I am getting at when I explained this to him.
    Okay.
    Quote from sherrimrn
    Just your response to me in regards to the CVC insertion story just completely proved my point...you believe my friend could have attempted a CVC insertion after being shown one time......
    Um, No I do not, matter of factly I commended her on using her discretion. I suppose your vested ego based interest really IS preventing you from seeing what I am writing.

    Gen
  2. by   DidiRN
    Yes, but I am not talking about that. If you look back, I am talking about folks who aren't even in the program yet. That's where I'm coming from. I've never done any kind of teaching on a grade school level, I've never taken any classes. I'm sure there's some kind of learning theories or reasons why a teachers operates the way she does based on education that I as a layperson would not have any clue about. That's what I mean.
    Bottom line, I am only questioning the amount of floor experience that you will receive while training. Everyone is looking at the numbers here, the quantity and not QUALITY. If you think I am stretching here, well, you have a right to your opinion of course, but all I can say is that you will eventually find this out on your own. It's nothing personal, I'm not questioning you as a person and telling you that you WILL fail; it's not based on how smart you are, how determined you are to make it. Nobody is going to be successful at anything if they don't have the proper training or background.That's all I am saying. I have found that recent grads are not prepared enough on a basic level nowadays, never mind an advanced practitioner. I have seen this with my own eyes, and that is why I am concerned.


    Quote from fotografe
    But, if you did the teacher education program at a college, and did your student teaching, then wouldn't you feel like you had some basis to discuss this with a seasoned teacher? I don't think anyone fresh out of school thinks they know it all -- not teachers, not doctors, not engineers -- but to say that going through an accredited program and passing the licensing exams, then studying at a higher level while working makes you incompetent, I think you are just really stretching. Yeah, some people will be completely incompetent, some people will be green for a long time, and some people will be able to function quite competently right out of the gate. I think you generalize way too much, and it is clear you oppose the Direct Entry Master's programs. I agree with you that the programs need more clinical time. Comparing them to the PA programs, the clinical time is just a fraction. I think your energy would best be spent lobbying the accrediting organizations to increase the clinical time for nursing student at all levels. The suggestion for full-time nursing internships is a good one. Northeastern University already has that built into their curriculum. www.neu.edu
  3. by   jeepgirl
    Quote from sherrimrn
    I have found that recent grads are not prepared enough on a basic level nowadays, never mind an advanced practitioner. I have seen this with my own eyes, and that is why I am concerned.
    Well, I'm just not quite sure what to say. You are lumping all recent grads together and saying that they are not prepared enough to practice on a basic level? You've seen it with your own eyes? You've never laid eyes on me. How can you say that? You can't just lump everyone together and make a generalization like that. You seem to be doing that quite a bit in this thread.
  4. by   DidiRN
    Never mind.
    Last edit by sherrimrn on Feb 11, '05 : Reason: error
  5. by   DidiRN
    How can I say this? It's my observation. My own personal experience. Don't take this personally. Everyone is taking this stuff personally, and I'm not trying to insult you at all. Once again, I am concerned about the quality of education students are receiving. That's all.


    Quote from jeepgirl
    Well, I'm just not quite sure what to say. You are lumping all recent grads together and saying that they are not prepared enough to practice on a basic level? You've seen it with your own eyes? You've never laid eyes on me. How can you say that? You can't just lump everyone together and make a generalization like that. You seem to be doing that quite a bit in this thread.
  6. by   Jess RN
    sherrimrn wrote:

    As for the NP, I personally think you should be an RN for 3 to 5 years in the appropriate area (I actually was just going to say five years minimum).
    and gennaver wrote:

    So, if you do the math by the time anyone in any direct entry program graduates as an NP, (even like me as an ANP) they will have a minimum of three years working full-time as a Registered Nurse while attending classes part time.
    See- I really don't think you are all that far off from each other in what is an "appropriate" amount of experience. I think the tone of the posts have gotten a little pissy and that's clouded the issue. Sure there are some wanna-be NPs who will plow though their programs at breakneck speeds doing the least amount of clinical work possible to start cashing in the big bucks as an NP ASAP- but I don't think they are here posting in this thread. Who becomes a nurse for the money anyway?!

    -Jess
  7. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from future nurse jess
    sherrimrn wrote:



    and gennaver wrote:



    See- I really don't think you are all that far off from each other in what is an "appropriate" amount of experience. I think the tone of the posts have gotten a little pissy and that's clouded the issue. Sure there are some wanna-be NPs who will plow though their programs at breakneck speeds doing the least amount of clinical work possible to start cashing in the big bucks as an NP ASAP- but I don't think they are here posting in this thread. Who becomes a nurse for the money anyway?!

    -Jess

    Granted I'm just a little old rural nurse with an ADN but I have read this entire thread and I have to agree here . .. you all are not that far apart.

    steph
  8. by   DidiRN
    You know I was just thinking this last night...that I make more money as a staff RN than I would as an NP (I looked into local programs and at one point in my life that was a goal of mine), at least in my area, and would have much more responsibility as an NP. Money isn't everything of course, it's best to do what you are happy at, but I guess I decided for myself it wasn't worth it.
    You are right, it's gotten into a p*ssing match. I'll agree to disagree here


    Quote from future nurse jess
    sherrimrn wrote:



    and gennaver wrote:



    See- I really don't think you are all that far off from each other in what is an "appropriate" amount of experience. I think the tone of the posts have gotten a little pissy and that's clouded the issue. Sure there are some wanna-be NPs who will plow though their programs at breakneck speeds doing the least amount of clinical work possible to start cashing in the big bucks as an NP ASAP- but I don't think they are here posting in this thread. Who becomes a nurse for the money anyway?!

    -Jess
  9. by   DidiRN
    hey, I'm an ex little ole' rural nurse with an ADN too....I do miss my old rural hospital
    When I was going to reply to her, I was looking back to see if I did miss something, she said something about seven years, which I hadn't seen before. But I just got tired of arguing. Sometimes it's just best to let things go, which I am going to do

    Quote from stevielynn
    Granted I'm just a little old rural nurse with an ADN but I have read this entire thread and I have to agree here . .. you all are not that far apart.

    steph
  10. by   fotografe
    Have you worked with graduates of every program? Maybe the people you are working with are in a program that needs some reworking. What area of the country are you working in? I can't see how getting your training here in Boston at some of the best teaching hospitals in the country would make you ill trained and ill prepared for nursing. I think unless you have worked with nurses all over the country from every program out there -- yes you are generalizing.



    Quote from sherrimrn
    How can I say this? It's my observation. My own personal experience. Don't take this personally. Everyone is taking this stuff personally, and I'm not trying to insult you at all. Once again, I am concerned about the quality of education students are receiving. That's all.
  11. by   KrisRNwannabe
    I have seen these crazy programs. 1 year for BSn and 1 year for NP. I am sorry but after 2 years in a nursing program ,i don't even think I would be ready to be a RN let alone be a NP. I have alot of respect for the people who work long and hard as a RN and then become an NP. How would you feel if you just graduated as an RN and went to an NP for advice on pt only to find out she just graduated as well, and 2 years age she was a cashier at target???????????? I think that would scare me. these degrees should be left to people with LOTS of nursing experience.
  12. by   jeepgirl
    Quote from fotografe
    Have you worked with graduates of every program? Maybe the people you are working with are in a program that needs some reworking. What area of the country are you working in? I can't see how getting your training here in Boston at some of the best teaching hospitals in the country would make you ill trained and ill prepared for nursing. I think unless you have worked with nurses all over the country from every program out there -- yes you are generalizing.
    Exactly!
  13. by   smile123
    Quote from KrisRNwannabe
    I have seen these crazy programs. 1 year for BSn and 1 year for NP. I am sorry but after 2 years in a nursing program ,i don't even think I would be ready to be a RN let alone be a NP. I have alot of respect for the people who work long and hard as a RN and then become an NP. How would you feel if you just graduated as an RN and went to an NP for advice on pt only to find out she just graduated as well, and 2 years age she was a cashier at target???????????? I think that would scare me. these degrees should be left to people with LOTS of nursing experience.
    I think you are distorting the direct entry BS to MSN programs. They consist of a very accelerated year to 1.5 years for the BSN year (they don't take summers off and have very short vacations between semesters so the total time is the same as a 2 year program) AND the master's portion is 2 years for NP, not one. Plus, the remark about a cashier at Target is totally erroneous. Please give the direct entry candidates some credit. They are usually older students (they already have a bachelors degree, have been working longer (not as a Target cashier) and have had some volunteer/paid health care experience. So please don't make extreme generalizations on this. Thanks.

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