Now I get why experience means everything yet nothing

Specialties NP

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You are reading page 8 of Now I get why experience means everything yet nothing

mindlor

1,341 Posts

Another thing that keeps popping up is that in 2015, NPs are going to need to have a DNP degree.

I have been unable to substantiate this. if anyoone can provide official, clear evidence of this I would be greatful.

Also, can an NP work as an RN of the need arises? I am thinking yes?

SHGR, MSN, RN, CNS

1 Article; 1,406 Posts

Specializes in nursing education.

bsnanat2, i really appreciated your original post because i think it brought a new way to look at apn education, and really validated my decision to pursue cns rather than fnp. when i tell people i am in a nursing graduate program the general assumption is that i am pursuing fnp and if not why not? that is the next step, right? not true! what you said about how the np track "changes your career rather than furthers it" was probably the final decision maker for me- i don't want to change my career. i love what i do. more skills? stronger theory base? 3 p's? bring them on!!! fnp? no, thanks.

you have not only good ideas but you articulate them very well. it really makes me sad that people latch onto one piece of a post and turn it into an argument that has been hashed out to death elsewhere.

i want to further this discussion about apn's and what it means for the future of nursing and leave the extreme polarization of the direct entry vs traditional at the door.

bsnanat2

268 Posts

Specializes in ..

I hear ya. I do wish that nursing could get away from the arguing and realize that, no matter how we got the letters, we are all RN's. I have no problem debating the merit of one route vs another amongst ourselves, but when those debates become 'public' I have a problem. No MD or PA would ever disparage another in front of people, but RN's will routinely say, "yeah, but she got her BSN from an easy program" or "yeah, but she's only an ASN nurse." Really??!!?? Nurses seem to have this self-loathing thing down to an art and that must change. In my opinion, the change needs to occur on two fronts: The basic entry for RN's should be the BSN with required course work in ethics and professionalism. The entry point for NP's (can't believe I'm saying this) should EVENTUALLY be the DNP, BUT NOT IN IT'S PRESENT FORM!!! The DNP must have more hard science and something akin to a true clinical residency. I do not believe that attaining a NP degree should be easy or convenient and too many schools are making it so. The issue is not whether or not the NP program is online or brick and mortar, but the content and rigor of the program. Call it what it is....some schools are just simply making it way too easy to get the NP degree. THAT!!! is what waters down the profession and the title. Whether a NP went direct-entry or twenty years in the trenches really doesn't matter because you will have to pass boards and you will be weeded out if you are incompetent. The only question is how many of these schools are turning out incompetent folks who will do 'reputation damage' to the profession before they are weeded out? The NLN and ANA seem to have occupied themselves with the mission of generating more reason for nurses to stay in school (and paying) longer as opposed to looking at what will really help the profession. Hopefully that will change. If nurses ever got organized, we would be unstoppable due to sheer numbers, but the MD's don't have to fight us - they know we'll continue to fight amongst ourselves, leaving them free to lobby to keep us there. One of the most powerful legislators in my state has a record of repeatedly killing or blocking NP-friendly regulations. She is chairperson of the legislature's health committee, so all laws on healthcare go through her. She is married to a physician and she is a Registered Nurse!! Self-hate?? Jealousy?? Whatever it is, it is ugly and not that uncommon. How many of you have had your orders challenged by a nurse because you, the NP, are "just a nurse like me"??

Time for a change people.

SHGR, MSN, RN, CNS

1 Article; 1,406 Posts

Specializes in nursing education.

The other thing that is happening is that, we seem to think it is no longer good enough to be an RN. Not important enough, or what have you, so many good nurses are becoming NP's, or going into management, leaving direct patient care.

Another example of infighting...we've initiated billing for nursing services. Some nursing staff refuse to bill- it's "not nice." What? Having to close our doors due to lack of funding is "not nice." Not getting a paycheck is "not nice." We nurses have duties added on by physicians that directly get them (MD's) a bigger paycheck- we don't see any of this, except for the aforementioned keeping open of our clinic doors. That's "not nice." Getting validated that we provide valuable services? NICE.

You are right, we need to build up our profession. Infighting, especially in public - and google searches bring up AN all the time!!- is tearing us down.

Editorial Team / Admin

sirI, MSN, APRN, NP

17 Articles; 44,729 Posts

Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
Another thing that keeps popping up is that in 2015, NPs are going to need to have a DNP degree.

I have been unable to substantiate this. if anyoone can provide official, clear evidence of this I would be greatful.

Also, can an NP work as an RN of the need arises? I am thinking yes?

The DNP issue and the NP working as RN need to be totally separate threads. ;)

The topic of this thread is about RN experience for the NP.

Tinabeanrn

337 Posts

Specializes in family nurse practitioner.

Hi to the OP. I agree. It is very different. But I do appreciate my nursing back ground because I have learned nursing intuition and drive that I could not learned in school. I remember feeling the same way when I first began the NP program. I was keeping all my nursing school books and my friend that is a NP kept saying that those books would not help me with the NP program. I thought she was crazy! LOL, now I see. I also Love NP school and being a nurse in general and I am so glad that I stuck with it :).

myelin

695 Posts

I do not believe that attaining a NP degree should be easy or convenient and too many schools are making it so.

this. this this this this this. whenever I read about how someone is looking for a MSN/DNP program where they can get the degree in their spare time while they're working full time, I seriously cringe.

zenman

1 Article; 2,806 Posts

Lots of ignorance flying around.......lots of jealousy.....

Someone please tell me whhat slinging zpack at walgreens has to do with bedside nursing?

Let me tell you. Diddly squat.

I had a lengthy conversation with the dean of the FNP program at Columbia University. Her opinion is that every day working at the bedside is time and money lost......

Just sayin

Randall, we don't have a dean of the FNP program so I'm not sure whose opinion this was. However, we encourage our students to move quickly from the BSN to education for advanced practice roles if that is their educational priority. Some do take a year or two off to practice and we don't consider that wasted time but do want them to get back into their program as soon as possible.

Sent from my iPhone

Bobbie Berkowitz, PhD, RN, FAAN

Dean and Professor

Columbia University School of

Nursing

TX RN

255 Posts

Specializes in ICU, CV-Thoracic Sx, Internal Medicine.
Randall, we don't have a dean of the FNP program so I'm not sure whose opinion this was. However, we encourage our students to move quickly from the BSN to education for advanced practice roles if that is their educational priority. Some do take a year or two off to practice and we don't consider that wasted time but do want them to get back into their program as soon as possible.

Sent from my iPhone

Bobbie Berkowitz, PhD, RN, FAAN

Dean and Professor

Columbia University School of

Nursing

ZING!!!!

LOL

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

Come on guys, at try and be accurate. Look at the difference in what he says PAs require and what is actually true.

I had that in my ADN, much less my BSN, Masters and DNAP.

[h=5]Additional Requirements[/h] Required Semester Hours & GPA

Required Courses

The College requires applicants to earn a grade of C (2.0) or better in each of the following required courses, which must be completed within 10 years of the application date:

  • College Math - 3 semester hours (sh.)
  • English (including 3 sh of English Composition - 6 sh)
  • Humanities/Arts - 3 sh.
  • Social Sciences - 9 sh.
  • General Chemistry (I & II) including laboratory - 8 sh.
  • Microbiology including laboratory - 4 sh.
  • General biology and lab OR Zoology including laboratory - 4 sh.
  • Human Anatomy - 3 sh.
  • Human Physiology - 3 sh.
    • Note: If taking A&P combined; must take both A&P I & II

    [*]Biochemistry or Organic Chemistry - 3 sh.

    [*]Genetics - 3 sh.

[h=2]Prerequisites - Physician Assistant[/h] PA Application Cycle is from June 1st - September 1st, 2011

All prerequisites are required at the college level from an accredited school and must be completed at the time of the CASPA application:

1. Human Anatomy with lab recommended within 5 years of application deadline

2. Human Physiology with lab recommended within 5 years of application deadline

3. General Chemistry with lab

4. Microbiology or bacteriology with lab

5. Algebra, Calculus or Statistics

6. English Composition

7. Two courses in Social Sciences (e.g. Psychology, Sociology or Cultural Anthropology)

Many are talking about PAs here as well...here is that deal: you have to have a BS in some field. Then you need prereqs as follows, Chem I. Chem II, Physics I, Physics II, Organic Chem I, Organic Chem II, Calculus I, among others. The PA programs as they are essentially replicate the first two years of Med School. They are very very difficult and competitive to enter. Also, most of the good schools will not accept an applicant that does not have at least 2000 hours of some sort of healthcare experience.

it is much much easier to get into NP school. This is of course based on my individual experience and research. I am sure somewhere out there are exceptions......

Guttercat, ASN, RN

1,353 Posts

The other thing that is happening is that, we seem to think it is no longer good enough to be an RN. Not important enough, or what have you, so many good nurses are becoming NP's, or going into management, leaving direct patient care.

.

I think RN's are simply seeing the handwriting on the wall.

Guttercat, ASN, RN

1,353 Posts

Come on guys, at try and be accurate. Look at the difference in what he says PAs require and what is actually true.

I had that in my ADN, much less my BSN, Masters and DNAP.

[h=5]Additional Requirements[/h] Required Semester Hours & GPA

Required Courses

The College requires applicants to earn a grade of C (2.0) or better in each of the following required courses, which must be completed within 10 years of the application date:

  • College Math - 3 semester hours (sh.)
  • English (including 3 sh of English Composition - 6 sh)
  • Humanities/Arts - 3 sh.
  • Social Sciences - 9 sh.
  • General Chemistry (I & II) including laboratory - 8 sh.
  • Microbiology including laboratory - 4 sh.
  • General biology and lab OR Zoology including laboratory - 4 sh.
  • Human Anatomy - 3 sh.
  • Human Physiology - 3 sh.
    • Note: If taking A&P combined; must take both A&P I & II

    [*]Biochemistry or Organic Chemistry - 3 sh.

    [*]Genetics - 3 sh.

[h=2]Prerequisites - Physician Assistant[/h] PA Application Cycle is from June 1st - September 1st, 2011

All prerequisites are required at the college level from an accredited school and must be completed at the time of the CASPA application:

1. Human Anatomy with lab recommended within 5 years of application deadline

2. Human Physiology with lab recommended within 5 years of application deadline

3. General Chemistry with lab

4. Microbiology or bacteriology with lab

5. Algebra, Calculus or Statistics

6. English Composition

7. Two courses in Social Sciences (e.g. Psychology, Sociology or Cultural Anthropology)

Thank you for saving me the time in typing out a "correction" to the post in question.

You oultined it better than I would have, anyway.

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