Now I get why experience means everything yet nothing

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You are reading page 7 of Now I get why experience means everything yet nothing

mindlor

1,341 Posts

Thank you nomad. It warms my heart when I see people doing their own research and thinking for themselves.

Excellent, informative post.

myelin

695 Posts

I don't think anyone is saying that RN experience doesn't count or isn't useful, just that people from other backgrounds have a lot to offer as well.

Guttercat, ASN, RN

1,353 Posts

NP, according to the American College of Nurse Practioners, Pearson report. 27 states allow totally independent practice.

I know that there are PA owned practices. I have a good friend that has one in Montana. But the fact remains, you still MUST have a collaborative physician and their involvement varies according to state law.

I support PA independent practice. I also support their name change. I think it is just the physicians wanting control and money from the PAs. This is the same reason they fight tooth and nail against NP/CRNAs.

But the fact remains that NPs are making great strides every year. This past year have 3 more states become independent. With the current climate in health care, more will follow.

I thin NPs and PAs should band together to fight for legislative changes.

The 2012 Pearson Report: A National Overview of Nurse Practitioner Legislation and Health Care Issues © By Linda Pearson DNSc MSN APRN,BC FAANP

For the past 24 years I have annually written a Report summarizing national nurse practitioner (NP) legislation - a Report that has wide dissemination, discussion, and utilization promoting NP legislation. Readers appreciate the concise information format including the state-by-state review of pertinent legislation, rules and regulations that impact NPs, and the government, policy and reimbursement information. For the cost of four to five gourmet coffees, anyone on the web can access the complete summary status of NP legislation, available at http://www.webnponline.com .

HIGHLIGHTS OF '2012 PEARSON REPORT' COMPILED DATA

Within the following “bulleted highlights” are some interesting compilations from the 2012 Pearson Report:

  • The number of NPs within our nation is now more than 180,000 (see 2012 Summary Table). This number of NPs is incredibly good news for the citizens of our country since nurse practitioners are powerfully important health care providers who are helping our nation to improve healthcare outcomes and lower healthcare costs.
  • There is NO requirement for any physician involvement in NP Diagnosing and Treating in TWENTY SEVEN STATES (See MAP – DX/TX – an “Overview of Diagnosing and Treating Aspects of Nurse Practitioner Practice”). This number has INCREASED by three states from last year’s Report!!!!!!

Thank you. Excellent information!

Very helpful to me as I muddle along through the learning process.

mammac5

727 Posts

I don't think anyone is saying that RN experience doesn't count or isn't useful, just that people from other backgrounds have a lot to offer as well.

Thank you. I've worked in healthcare (with some time out for various family priorities) for 20 years. I've worked as a Certified Medical Assistant in a clinical capacity, I've taught in medical assisting programs, I've worked in physician practice management, I've done transcription, etc. All of those experiences have been valuable to me in pursing my education and training as a nurse practitioner - and I continue to draw on those experiences daily as a nurse practitioner working in a hospital.

I never worked a day as an RN. Some will insist that makes my patient care as a NP substandard; I saw all those years helped me become a well-rounded practitioner. Not one patient has ever asked me about nursing experience and, frankly, I don't think they care.

Editorial Team / Admin

sirI, MSN, APRN, NP

17 Articles; 44,731 Posts

Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

This particular subject never fails to generate passionate replies.

In the past, every single thread on this subject has been closed due to TOS.......w/o fail.

Please do not allow this thread to become a statistic, too.

First and final warning.

zenman

1 Article; 2,806 Posts

I very clearly posted the contact information for the school. Feel free to give her a call. She can hold her own, I assure you.....

Hopefully you don't agree with her! I'm going to start pulling out my checkbook and doing some betting!

zenman

1 Article; 2,806 Posts

I very clearly posted the contact information for the school. Feel free to give her a call. She can hold her own, I assure you.....

Do you have her email? If so please send it to me and I'll contact her. I want email as I want her response written down.

zenman

1 Article; 2,806 Posts

With all due respect, you have no idea what kind of meaning I as a DE-NP derive from "handing out meds at walgreens" without having followed patients as a bedside RN. See my above paragraph ... I believe you when you say that your RN experience helped your NP development - but it's a bit egotistical to think that ONLY that type of experience gives rise to a good NP. We recently took opposite sides in the online education debate - I'll try to let go of my personal bias against online education if you can conceive of a safe NP without bedside RN experience. At the end of the day I think both of our opinions arise out of general ignorance and not malicious intent.

I would love to see a change in the general attitude surrounding DE-NPs on AN.

Everyone has to do what they have to do. It doesn't matter to me. Please tell me what "meaning" you have handing out meds and do you think it is not good experience to have had observed patients at the bedside rather than at office visits days or weeks apart. I also don't think that ONLY one type of program gives rise to a good NP. BUT, when you want to argue that prior experience doesn't help, then we can have a good argument...based on my extensive experience. I've never worked with a DE-NP but others have and have plenty of concern with the average DE-NP grad. You certainly can't say my opinion arises out of general ignorance..wait a minute...let me find something...here's a note from an M.D., Ph.D. physician, "On the basis of this close and collaborative work, I can recommend Randy without hesitation. In terms of diagnostic acumen, applied psychopharmacology and interpersonal skills, I rank him among the top ten percent of all mental health clinicians I have known. Likewise, I rank him similarly on his interpersonal skills. He is well liked and respected by a wide variety of patients from different age groups and socioeconomic backgrounds. As well, he is uniformly liked and respected by his team members. Importantly, he has the ability as a clinician to remain uncommonly clear-headed and calm in the midst of acute mental health problems. In the past, besides continuing as a practicing psychiatrist, I have managed a very large medical group (100 physicians). On these bases, I believe I am able to render a reliable opinion concerning Randy's overall clinical performance, which I would rate as excellent to exceptional." Based on my experience I was able to work locums tenons right out of school, a position usually reserved for those with years of experience under their belt. I'm certainly not ignorant!

mindlor

1,341 Posts

This particular subject never fails to generate passionate replies.

In the past, every single thread on this subject has been closed due to TOS.......w/o fail.

Please do not allow this thread to become a statistic, too.

First and final warning.[/quote

I vote for thread closure....its going nowhere

ImThatGuy, BSN, RN

2,139 Posts

You have got to realize that this is the exception rather than the rule. Read about the history of physician assistants, and you'll note that the role developed from seasoned, military medics. Next, read about the process of getting in modern PA programs, and you'll learn that the majority also require healthcare experience. Today, many paramedics go in and become PAs. Many respiratory therapists become PAs. Yes, even nurses become PAs.

It also reinforces (for me, anyway) that NPs do have valuable experience that sets them apart from PAs. My classic example is a PA I know who majored in dance as an undergrad. She spent a few years trying to land paid dancing jobs, but realized that at her ripe old age of 28 she wasn't getting much work. So, she explored the possibilities for grad schools and employment possibilities outside standing on her toes, spinning and leaping. She decided that she'd be employable and make a great salary as an NP--but gee... that would mean she'd have to go to nursing school, pass the NCLEX, work for a few years to gain experience, apply to NP school, then spend 2 or 3 more years before she could actually be an NP. Instead she discovered the fast-track, easy, anyone-can-do-it method--Physician Assistant school! Two years later, she's qualified (on paper, anyway) to order tests, diagnose medical conditions, and prescribe medications! And to think, just two short years ago, she was pirouetting in her tutu!

bsnanat2

268 Posts

Specializes in ..

By "elders" I don't mean those chronologically older, but those who are more experienced. My baby sister precedes me by many years as a nurse and I will always double check myself if she questions something nursing related.

There is no need to close the thread.....one should never be afraid of healthy debate or differing points of view. Passion is good, being dogmatic is bad. Be always ready to listen and offer a solid defense for your position. If you find yourself upset and offended, you've already lost. Yes, we should all do our research, but remember that research involves more than just what the schools are selling. Much of what's out there is propaganda from one side or another. They have a product to move just like Wal-Mart. I appreciate the voices that don't agree with me because they make me think, re-examine my position and either accept a new point of view or become more sure of the one I already hold. Debate and differences are good. Who knows, we may come up with some good ideas in the process.

mindlor

1,341 Posts

You are of course correct. What gets me is the little things. Such as, someone stating that a school does not offer a certain program even though it has been clearly demonstrated that they are mistaken. Then, even in light of solid hard evidence, they continue to deny it. That level of ignorance just amazes me......

There is really not much to discuss here. DE-MSNs are wide spread and becoming moreso.

Does RN experience help a DE-NP? n some circumstances yes, perhaps in others it hurt.....

Are DE-NP's going away. No.

Are people who came before us going to be bitter? Yes

What I do not get is that our friends at the NLN think DE-MSN programs are a great idea. The NLN and the ANA are the leaders, the thinkers and the cultivators of our profession. I look to them for guidance and they say DE-MSN and DE-NP's are a good thing.

So am I not correct in that folks that are against DE-MSN really should be phoning up the NLN???

Many are talking about PAs here as well...here is that deal: you have to have a BS in some field. Then you need prereqs as follows, Chem I. Chem II, Physics I, Physics II, Organic Chem I, Organic Chem II, Calculus I, among others. The PA programs as they are essentially replicate the first two years of Med School. They are very very difficult and competitive to enter. Also, most of the good schools will not accept an applicant that does not have at least 2000 hours of some sort of healthcare experience.

it is much much easier to get into NP school. This is of course based on my individual experience and research. I am sure somewhere out there are exceptions......

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